Natural Soccer - Schleinzer

[Rafael Lima De Souza]

Mate, you will get my US$4.99 . I Just need to clear my credit card, but I'll buy your game. I just noticed I always keep going back to the demo from time to time, and I am always excited to see what new stuff an update will bring.

I posted this in my facebook wall a few days ago (in portuguese, my first language, so I hope nothing is lost in translation ), and I think I should share it with you:


"
This week I was a few days without internet access and, so, my online sessions of Gears of War 3 were suspended.

I've been playing, from time to time, an Ouya game called "Natural Soccer". It's a soccer game in the same vein of the 16 bits games before Fifa Soccer. The inspiration for the game, as its description says, its the Amiga games Sensible Soccer and Kick Off.

I said this to say that, on those days without Internet, I went back to play some Fifa 13.

And I almost broke its DVD.

I lost the count of how many times I wanted to throw the controller against the wall, either because a player passed the ball to the wrong direction instead of the one I really wanted, when my defenders were all standing still looking while an opposing attacker was running behind them, when I tried to switch the controlling player and it took like 2 seconds to switch to the WRONG player, when I notice my players misses passes randomly and with no reason, whenever I notice the AI clearly cheats, the two times the game just froze after I paused the game (it's bug that I've seen happening a few times), or the other 2 times the game froze after I beat the CPU...

...and I noticed when I play Natural Soccer, I never get pissed with the game. Surely, the game is way simpler, there are no bicycle kicks, no volley shots, no licensed teams... there isn't even an offside rule.

But everytime I conced a goal, I know it's my fault. The game didn't screw me up, it's me who played badly. The game never fails in doing what I ask it to do it. I noticed I have a lot more fun with Natural Soccer than with Fifa.

"

So, yeah. Keep the random wrong passes and shots out of it. You are completely right on this. I don't know how to fix the "passing is too accurate" problem... but maybe that's not a problem and should not be fixed at all.

[schleinzer]

Hi Rafael,

thank you *very much* for one of most encouraging and simply astonishing comments I got about Natural Soccer so far!

The FB post you made is simply amazing! Thank you *very* much! Oh, by the way, could you send me the link to it? Did you get any feedback to it so far?

I am *very* pleased that you find Natural Soccer "doing it right" even compared to FIFA. Honestly, as much as I respect and like both PES/FIFA as soccer simulations, I just think they sacrifice quite a lot of pure gameplay fun for such a high degree of realism... which is okay: if you look for great presentation and ultra high realism, never even bother trying out Natural Soccer and pick FIFA or PES. But if you, on the other hand, are looking for a lot of fun - go for Natural Soccer ;-)

It's those small but crucial gameplay designs that set my "david" game apart from those "goliath" ones. While these two are fighting every year who gets more realistic and the better graphics, Natural Soccer *really* concentrates on what matters most in my opinion: FUN :-) ! I am constantly arguing about what to add to the game and what to not. Being far from all-knowing, I *love* to argue (as we both already did) and get feedback but have a rather strong opinion about what *adds* fun to the game and what adds *realism* to the game while sacrificing fun. So it's rather simple: if the feature sacrifices fun, it won't get it, no matter how close to reality it is :-) - at least not as a default; maybe optional.

One example, you already mentioned, is the offside rule. Let's have a look at that one: in real soccer it only exists so that no attacker will just "sit and wait" in front of the opponent's goal, waiting for a long pass - it is just crucial there. But it also is a source of *very* frustrating moments. Frustration is not fun, so no offside rule for Natural Soccer ;-) - it actually also is just not necessary: the auto-player-switch will always switch to a different player as soon as you are trying to sneak to far away up to the opponent's goal and the CPU will run back into a non-offside position. Now take, for example, the ever-requested manual player switching: if I put it in, I would have to look for a solution for that offside problem as it suddenly becomes an issue again - the player could just run towards the goal and do said "sit and wait". So no "manual player switching" w/o offside rule. But with the offside rule, frustration sneaks in, less fun, less "natural". So you can see that I am actually *really* carefully planning what to add and how to do it. I *am* actually working on the offside rule as it becomes also necessary for the planned "play as a single field player" mode (no switching at all), but I guess you get the picture how hard it actually is to actually make a game fun to play and balance it - so I am very, very pleased you agree with me on the missed passes and such.

Again, missed passes, are nothing but "random" - it's not YOU - the player - who is in control. That's just not "natural". If you are good with the gamepad, or better than the one you play against, there is just no sense in putting in this randomness as it's just not "natural". So, as I am working on player skills, I am very carefully thinking about how to do it right. So far, something like "shooting" is quite easy: the higher that skill, the stronger/more dangerous the shot - there is no frustrating randomness in there. The same goes for "banana power". The higher that skill, the more the ball will bend. Again, it will only be a subtle amount, so that you won't get surprised when bending a shot and am not sure which player you are controlling. Too much power would make a perfectly good shot miss the target - guess what - "frustration creep" again :-). So, what to do about a "passing" skill? I will definitely not add inaccuracy based on that skill for the reasons you mentioned - or at least - as always - make individual player skills optional for friendlies.

Phewww.... I'm starting brainstorming here :-)

So before drifting too far away: THANKS FOR YOUR GREAT FEEDBACK!

Thorsten

P.S.: You mentioned things like volleys and bicycle kicks: I think those are actually *fun* and are just not yet in there as I only have so much time :-} Oh, and don't forget about diving headers - they are also on my TODO list :-)

[masvil]

One of main reason I'll buy OUYA (once on Amazon IT later this month) is play SWOS 96-97 with Uae4all2. After reading this thread I'll also give a try to Natural Soccer to see if it's really so much fun

[schleinzer]

Hi Masvil,

thanks for you message! Emulating SWOS on OUYA is actually quite a great idea- both because it certainly is great fun and it makes Natural Soccer (quite literally) comparable. Will definitely try it out...

I would be very happy if you'd post your feedback here once you got the chance to try Natural Soccer on OUYA!

Thank you!

[masvil]

I would be very happy if you'd post your feedback here once you got the chance to try Natural Soccer on OUYA!

In the meanwhile I searched a decent gameplay on Youtube without any luck, but I found that. Your comment about the "How to Play" menu is very nice ))

[schleinzer]

:-)

You are right, I did not yet create a decent and *current* gameplay video... the official trailer is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZMgAfLUGHw (but I guess you already figured that one out). It's a bit outdated but still gets to the point.

Yes, the video you refer to is a purely fan-made video I did on stumble upon myself some time ago by surprise :-) It was a *very* valuable source of information (and entertainment!) for me though, and the weak spots those guys point out are fixed in recent versions (multi-player "clustering" and player switching, for example).

Thanks for your post!

[Another World]

I just tested this out on the limited white OUYA. I am experiencing controller lag. I find that some movements take 3 seconds to register. This has caused me to miss many goal opportunities, as I'll pass to someone in front of the net and then press UP and shoot, but the game will still be receiving a "right" input. I also have to plan my movements 3 seconds ahead, because I never know of the lag will keep me running in the wrong direction then suddenly correct itself right into an opposing player. I've not experienced any lag with any other games while using the updated OUYA controller. I also do not have anything plugged in or any other controllers registered with the OUYA. Everything is default so I am assuming the problem is with the game.

The game is described as being an arcade experience but you can't slide tackle without causing a stoppage in play. The goalies are way to strong, making it near impossible to score against the AI. You can't swap players manually. There is no time limit. There is only 1 type of shot and 1 type of pass. Really, there isn't much here that reminds me of the classic arcade soccer games.

The game was fun. Due to the lag I experienced I can't make this a purchase. It would be wonderful if manual player switching, manual goalie controls, different types of passes and different types of shots were added. We should also be able to slide tackle the ball without causing a card to be pulled or a stoppage in play.

-Another World

[schleinzer]

I just tested this out on the limited white OUYA. I am experiencing controller lag. I find that some movements take 3 seconds to register. This has caused me to miss many goal opportunities, as I'll pass to someone in front of the net and then press UP and shoot, but the game will still be receiving a "right" input. I also have to plan my movements 3 seconds ahead, because I never know of the lag will keep me running in the wrong direction then suddenly correct itself right into an opposing player. I've not experienced any lag with any other games while using the updated OUYA controller. I also do not have anything plugged in or any other controllers registered with the OUYA. Everything is default so I am assuming the problem is with the game.

Thanks for your feedback! I am not quite sure if it's really an input lag or if you are just not yet used to how dribbling in Natural Soccer works: you can only change the ball's direction when directly touching it. While you are near it, the game's dribble assistance makes you run towards it, but again, you can only alter its direction while touching it. That's by design.

The game is described as being an arcade experience but you can't slide tackle without causing a stoppage in play. The goalies are way to strong, making it near impossible to score against the AI. You can't swap players manually. There is no time limit. There is only 1 type of shot and 1 type of pass. Really, there isn't much here that reminds me of the classic arcade soccer games.

The points you make are very valid. But good news is, the a *huge* update is *right now* being reviewed by the OUYA team and to be released in the next days! This release actually adds "tackling without fouls". The goalies' strength can be set in the OPTIONS menu. Please try "very easy" which makes them very beatable after a bit of practice. Swapping players manually is on my TODO list - but just let the game aid you by always *pretending* to be the player you want to be by pointing the stick towards the ball from the position of the player you are *or want to be* - the game will then switch very soon. About the time limit: I guess you are referring to the DEMO's restriction that matches end after 3 goals? This, of course, is removed once you bought the full version.

About the types of shots: quite the contrary! While there is, in fact, only one type of pass (actually it's 2: direct or pass-through, which the AI decides about) there are, in fact, *unlimited* types of shots: just move the joystick to the left or right *right* after pressing the shot button, to bend the ball. Pull it back to lift it - the longer you hold the stick there, the higher the ball will go. Add the CHIP whose length/height depends on *how long* you hold the chip button, there is far more shooting types than in most classic and today's soccer games combined ;-)

The game was fun. Due to the lag I experienced I can't make this a purchase. It would be wonderful if manual player switching, manual goalie controls, different types of passes and different types of shots were added. We should also be able to slide tackle the ball without causing a card to be pulled or a stoppage in play.

Thank you! Glad you found the game to be fun despite the things you mentioned!

Maybe you should give it a second try, as most of the things you mentioned are already in there! ...especially with the new version right around the corner!

Thanks A LOT for your feedback!

[rosse119]

Looking forward to trying the latest version. I do like your game already but It hasn't made me part with $5 just yet. Have you added championships yet?

[schleinzer]

Looking forward to trying the latest version. I do like your game already but It hasn't made me part with $5 just yet. Have you added championships yet?

Thanks! Should be available very soon (feel free to follow @NaturalSoccer to get informed as soon as it is available). Yes, the new version has a nice league mode with 200 teams to choose from, with more than 2.200 carefully crafted players!