OUYA Making a Game?

[rgcd]

Sorry to sound like a cynic here, but I personally think it is far more likely Ouya are making a game as a 'tutorial' or example to show people exactly how easy it is to get a game on Ouya. I very much doubt they are trying to create their own 'defining' game as they lack the experience to do so.

Exclusives ARE in my opinion what the Ouya needs, but exclusives from you and me aren't going to sway the tide anywhere near as much as exclusives from well known indies and established small studios. Instead of the broken 'free the games fund', that $1m would have been better spent giving 100 known indies and small studios $10,000 each to pitch and develop an exclusive title. But that's all water under the bridge now...

After spending the past two weeks working on a Ouya (exclusive) game using GameMaker Studio, I really think that Ouya should have partnered with YoYoGames to market the Ouya as an educational tool, or introduction to console game coding. It has been SO refreshing to develop a game without worrying about different resolutions and system requirements, and GMS works so perfectly with Ouya, running code straight from the PC down to the runner installed on the device.

Anyway, I'm super interested to see how Bawb's Ouya game pans out, and similarly I'm looking forward to seeing how our own release is received

[Killswitch]

Instead of the broken 'free the games fund', that $1m would have been better spent giving 100 known indies and small studios $10,000 each to pitch and develop an exclusive title. But that's all water under the bridge now...

Disagree. Just because some jackasses decided to try to break it doesn't mean it was without merit. Look at the ones who did receive money from OUYA, how many are actually out there now? There are people still getting money and Free the Games has merit, just bad direction and planning. Games aren't things that you can just put out there in a few weeks or whatever. Look how long we're still waiting for some that were launched even BEFORE OUYA's Kickstarter.

$10,000 isn't much in terms of development unless it's a 1-2 man team. Even then it would have to be something not so in depth.

I pitched an idea of breaking up the cash where you had X for this budget, X for this budget, etc.

There's more I can and probably will say on this subject because people are looking at it all wrong just because the idiots who try to game Kickstarter and those who don't need it or those who think Kickstarter is a way to fund their lives.

[RiotingSpectre]

I keep saying this, but it's all about perception. What's the killer app PS4 has that is so amazing?

Sadly, I've concluded it comes down to marketing budget. Sure, you still need great games, but it's only when 3 or 4 in a row get plastered all over billboards advertised as "on this console" do you get positive momentum.

People are now saying Nintendo has the opportunity to get themselves out of a hole with Wii U, if they can provide another couple of hits to back up the momentum generated by Mario Kart 8. Even then, it's a big if. OUYA might be able to get one hit from time to time, but without a run of them in relatively quick succession, those hits just become temporary blips on an otherwise flat sales graph (as happened with towerfall)

You're right as we need a constant flow of hit titles along with a system defining title which is very unlikely considering where the OUYA console stands. A good way remedy some of this is to use that marketing tactic to make it so those few games we already have are awesome and are just the tip of the OUYA library iceberg but this is not happening due to OUYA Incorporation's marketing being nonexistent. If they're really making a in-house game then they better be making more where that comes from because it's not going to make much of a ripple if it's just a one time thing. What they need to do with this exclusive in-house game (if this whole thing is legitimate) is to make it as appealing as it is to consumers as it is developers.

Furthermore, make it something that would make people think otherwise about the current iteration of the hardware, how far you can push it, what type of games can you successfully pull off, and all sorts of other things. Make it a message to developers and make it a experience to consumers.

Instead of the broken 'free the games fund', that $1m would have been better spent giving 100 known indies and small studios $10,000 each to pitch and develop an exclusive title. But that's all water under the bridge now...

This is what I always thought they should have done since the very beginning. Glad I'm not alone.

Disagree. Just because some jackasses decided to try to break it doesn't mean it was without merit. Look at the ones who did receive money from OUYA, how many are actually out there now? There are people still getting money and Free the Games has merit, just bad direction and planning. Games aren't things that you can just put out there in a few weeks or whatever. Look how long we're still waiting for some that were launched even BEFORE OUYA's Kickstarter.

$10,000 isn't much in terms of development unless it's a 1-2 man team. Even then it would have to be something not so in depth.

I pitched an idea of breaking up the cash where you had X for this budget, X for this budget, etc.

There's more I can and probably will say on this subject because people are looking at it all wrong just because the idiots who try to game Kickstarter and those who don't need it or those who think Kickstarter is a way to fund their lives.

We could go on for ours about this disagreement but we'd wait either way no matter how the money was distributed. All that would be different is the fact that we'd have more projects knuckled down to our contracts so they'd have to come on the console; late or not. What we're doing now is watching a shit-ton of failed Kickstarters that are quite amazing (i.e. Tomb of Tyrants) which should have been funded and roped in already. There are games out there and there are good developers out there but the way OUYA Incorporate is trying to gather them all up is too passive. This is the video game industry and we all know that it's like being mice in a great temple in the sense that you have to gather all that you can before Ms. Wickleston let's loose all her fifty cats on your tailed ass.

To close on this I'd like to address the developers who are using Kickstarter as a means to fund their personal lives. That is not what you're supposed to do and if you are then you aren't in the spirit of Kickstarters nor in the spirit of game development. It's not a charity page where all you say is woe is me crap to get more money and instead it's a pledge page to get you what you need that correlates to your project and not to supply yourself with a bulk order of Twinkies of Amazon.com. I could go on for hours and hours and this subject brings my blood to a boil so I'll leave it at this.

(Yes, it's not the black & white when it comes to Kickstarters. You know what I mean, OUYAForum so don't twist it around.)

[James Andrew Coote]

To close on this I'd like to address the developers who are using Kickstarter as a means to fund their personal lives. That is not what you're supposed to do and if you are then you aren't in the spirit of Kickstarters nor in the spirit of game development. It's not a charity page where all you say is woe is me crap to get more money and instead it's a pledge page to get you what you need that correlates to your project and not to supply yourself with a bulk order of Twinkies of Amazon.com. I could go on for hours and hours and this subject brings my blood to a boil so I'll leave it at this.

I really don't think there are any developers like that. In the AAA side of things, the hours are long and the pay is terrible. As in mandatory unpaid overtime on top of a salary that can be anything as low as half what you'd get for doing the exact same job outside of the games industry. But most developers who go on kickstarter are indies, for whom it's a case of 12 hours a day, usually 6 or 7 days a week, for 6 months, only to get a measly $500 at the end of all that work. Or the game takes two years to make because those game developers have to have day jobs just to be able to put food on the table for themselves and their families. Seriously, in 3 years of being an indie developer, and having met hundreds of other indie devs along the way, I've probably only come across 3 or 4 who make enough from their games to be able to do it full time.

[RiotingSpectre]

I really don't think there are any developers like that. In the AAA side of things, the hours are long and the pay is terrible. As in mandatory unpaid overtime on top of a salary that can be anything as low as half what you'd get for doing the exact same job outside of the games industry. But most developers who go on kickstarter are indies, for whom it's a case of 12 hours a day, usually 6 or 7 days a week, for 6 months, only to get a measly $500 at the end of all that work. Or the game takes two years to make because those game developers have to have day jobs just to be able to put food on the table for themselves and their families. Seriously, in 3 years of being an indie developer, and having met hundreds of other indie devs along the way, I've probably only come across 3 or 4 who make enough from their games to be able to do it full time.

There are, sorry to say and while I sympathize with some of those people you've met. I however don't think it's right to do stuff like this for any reason. Going to that link and the IndieGoGo page that follows can be applied to everything. Not just video games.

[James Andrew Coote]

There are, sorry to say and while I sympathize with some of those people you've met. I however don't think it's right to do stuff like this for any reason. Going to that link and the IndieGoGo page that follows can be applied to everything. Not just video games.

Firstly, that example has nothing to do with game developers. Secondly, you're picking just the tiny minority of cases where things are bad, and holding them up as evidence of a wider trend that simply doesn't exist when you objectively look at the evidence as a whole. Thirdly, don't let the odd one or two scammers posing as game developers tar genuine hard working folk with the same brush. 99% of crowdfunding campaigns for video games are for real, and even if the devs fail to complete the games after being funded, it's almost always due to being overambitious or underestimating how much money/time they'll need, rather than for lack of effort or because they've simply taken the money and run.

In fact, the take-the-money-and-run cases are conspicuous by their absence. When you dig down into this, it becomes clear that running a successful kickstarter campaign is in itself bloody hard work. I know a number of game devs who have successfully and unsuccessfully run campaigns, and it basically takes a good two months or more of full time work: In the month running up to the campaign, you need to do the video, spend time researching all the rewards, accounting for the costs of those rewards (so you don't end up spending all your kickstarter money on the cost to ship a bunch of t-shirts and posters half way around the world). But also building an audience of people who will back your campaign and go out to spread the word once it has launched. Getting press coverage for the game/kickstarter, and getting that to coincide with the campaign. Then once the campaign starts, you need to be constantly answering questions from backers, producing updates on the campaign, trying to get more people to back your game.

And on top of all that, these days you need to have an advanced prototype and/or artwork to go with the game, all of which takes a lot of effort to produce. In short, to actually get funded is not worth the time/effort for anyone to actually attempt it as a scam. Finally, despite the profusion of indie developers in recent years, the video games industry is still relatively small, and if you rip people off, that reputation will follow you.

What I'm trying to say is that us game devs work hard for your entertainment, so at least cut us some slack by not constantly questioning our personal motives.

[RiotingSpectre]

Firstly, that example has nothing to do with game developers. Secondly, you're picking just the tiny minority of cases where things are bad, and holding them up as evidence of a wider trend that simply doesn't exist when you objectively look at the evidence as a whole. Thirdly, don't let the odd one or two scammers posing as game developers tar genuine hard working folk with the same brush. 99% of crowdfunding campaigns for video games are for real, and even if the devs fail to complete the games after being funded, it's almost always due to being overambitious or underestimating how much money/time they'll need, rather than for lack of effort or because they've simply taken the money and run.

I know it has nothing to do with video game developers hence why I said you can apply what I showed you in that campaign to literally everything else. I have over twenty grand saved up for either a house or my own wedding but if I wanted to start a campaign and say that I'm without money, without self-reliance, and without any sort of self-respect? You'd all be none the wiser because all I'd have to do is type down that I need "a little extra" for "X" & "Y". These things are to fund your business, not your personal life to make sure you have food on the table. You get a fucking part-time job and do the hard-work yourself if you can't afford to work full-time while developing a game.

If your job isn't cutting it then you don't write up a woe is me page on the internet to have people give their own legitimately earned money just because you're an incompetent mess of a human being who wanted to run before he could walk with his dream of becoming a video game developer. I'm not generalizing anything here so that assertion is false. I'm simply stating that it does happen and it does happen to everything including video games, food, art studios, and automobiles. I agree with you with that ninety-nine percent part but you missed everything else of what I said.

[MABManZ]

I know it has nothing to do with video game developers hence why I said you can apply what I showed you in that campaign to literally everything else. I have over twenty grand saved up for either a house or my own wedding but if I wanted to start a campaign and say that I'm without money, without self-reliance, and without any sort of self-respect? You'd all be none the wiser because all I'd have to do is type down that I need "a little extra" for "X" & "Y". These things are to fund your business, not your personal life to make sure you have food on the table. You get a fucking part-time job and do the hard-work yourself if you can't afford to work full-time while developing a game.

If your job isn't cutting it then you don't write up a woe is me page on the internet to have people give their own legitimately earned money just because you're an incompetent mess of a human being who wanted to run before he could walk with his dream of becoming a video game developer. I'm not generalizing anything here so that assertion is false. I'm simply stating that it does happen and it does happen to everything including video games, food, art studios, and automobiles. I agree with you with that ninety-nine percent part but you missed everything else of what I said.

I've got a problem with this mentality too. I'm running the Kickstarter for Combat Core right now and part of the funding (aside from hardware/software/marketing/collaboration) is to "fund my life" ie. be able to eat, take care of living expenses, and NOT have to work on the game as a part-time side project. I don't own a Chihuahua, but if I did that would be included in the expenses. Is it so disgusting for a developer to want to work on an indie game full time? Judging by the progress of my campaign, I likely WILL have to "get a job" which WILL result in slowing down the development of the game. I could finish the game in less than 1 year if I stay on it full-time, but as a part-time project? Who knows, it's hella hard to come home after working 8-12 hours on your day job, and then burning the midnight oil to work on the game for 4-5 hours, and repeat the process every day for months or years. If I'm full-time I can spend 10-12 hours (or more) working on the game daily and then the rest of my time to keep my sanity. If I get hired at a game company, I might have to sign a non-competitive NDA and halt progress on the game completely.

James is right...making games is hard work and it's a shame that some people look at Kickstarters and indie game funding this way. The thing I think you're missing is that for any full-time indie developer the game IS their life.

[Dan Fu]

Sorry to sound like a cynic here, but I personally think it is far more likely Ouya are making a game as a 'tutorial' or example to show people exactly how easy it is to get a game on Ouya. I very much doubt they are trying to create their own 'defining' game as they lack the experience to do so.

Exclusives ARE in my opinion what the Ouya needs, but exclusives from you and me aren't going to sway the tide anywhere near as much as exclusives from well known indies and established small studios. Instead of the broken 'free the games fund', that $1m would have been better spent giving 100 known indies and small studios $10,000 each to pitch and develop an exclusive title. But that's all water under the bridge now...

After spending the past two weeks working on a Ouya (exclusive) game using GameMaker Studio, I really think that Ouya should have partnered with YoYoGames to market the Ouya as an educational tool, or introduction to console game coding. It has been SO refreshing to develop a game without worrying about different resolutions and system requirements, and GMS works so perfectly with Ouya, running code straight from the PC down to the runner installed on the device.

Anyway, I'm super interested to see how Bawb's Ouya game pans out, and similarly I'm looking forward to seeing how our own release is received

You pretty much said it for me, especially the part about using the Ouya as an educational tool.

I've said similar things here before but I'll say it again; when the Ouya 2 comes out the company should donate their excess inventory of Ouya 1's rather than try to sell them at a discount rate. The donation would go to a charity/nonprofit that Ouya itself could sponsor with a game engine like Gamemaker to bring game development classes into schools. You could get a whole generation of young game designers that could be making games for the system and in the process create some good PR, increase sales (every kid in the class will want one at home), and create a good tax write off in the process.

Having said that; if Ouya is actually making a game directly for their system I hope they take their time with it and create something of truly high quality that really pushes the system to it's limits. The game doesn't need to be ground breaking or super original, it would just need to be a showcase for what the system is truly capable of.

Oh, and we need Ocean Horn!