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TwoSquidGames
01-18-2014, 02:04 PM
I wish this would be made available.

I really need an OUYA for testing, but I've spent so much on test hardware, and haven't made much back yet.

One of the things I purchased was a MOGA bluetooth controller -- which would work with the OUYA. So instead of spending $100 on an OUYA + controller, I should be spending $50 or $60 on the console itself.

I can't afford to buy anything twice.

I haven't seen a "controller-less OUYA" for sale anywhere though -- new or used.

timmytot666
01-18-2014, 02:07 PM
Its because no one who doesn't want their ouya wants to keep the controller. Unless you find someone who has multiple that they are willing to sell one.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

Killswitch
01-18-2014, 02:08 PM
You might get an Ouya with a controller for that much on eBay or craigslist.
Also the Goodwill auctions I posted about in general chat.
Others are reporting picking them up at Target or Best Buy on clearance or at Goodwill stores.

Just a few places to look in that price range.

TwoSquidGames
01-18-2014, 05:06 PM
There's nothing on Craigslist, even in San Antonio TX (which I thought was a pretty large city!)
As for eBay, I looked at recently ended auctions to see what they're selling for. The only ones selling for $60 have $20 or $25 shipping.
Basically I can't touch an OUYA for less than $90 shipped.
And over 1/2 the listings on eBay wanted $120 or more for an OUYA! Hello, it's a $99 console!

I haven't tried brick & mortar stores yet.

dra6onfire
01-18-2014, 05:14 PM
the few of us that I know of in san antonio with ouyas aren't giving them up lol.

See where this lands
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ouya-Android-8-GB-Silver-Console-/171215300199?pt=Video_Games&hash=item27dd3a2667

Killswitch
01-18-2014, 07:25 PM
Examples
http://memphis.craigslist.org/vgm/4289909219.html
http://montreal.fr.craigslist.ca/ele/4291962933.html
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Ouya-Android-Gaming-Console-w-Controller-15300703.html

spinal
01-18-2014, 09:21 PM
I was sure I replied on this thread, must have been mistaken. Anyway, to repeat what I thought I had wrote...

There are no doubt inconsistencies between using an OUYA controller on an OUYA and using any non-OUYA controller. You might find that a specific button doesn't do anything in your game, or a function assigned to a specific button just doesn't respond with an OUYA controller. There are threads on this forum about different controllers giving different levels of functionality, ranging from just not working, to the buttons being mapped a completely different way around.
I understand that you want to save money, but as a developer, I would hate to put myself in the position of having to admit to users that my game had not been tested using the controller that comes bundled with the system. The very controller that the OUYA framework is designed to use and that 100% of OUYA owners have and a good 90% use as their main controller.
Plus, as others have mentioned, if you want to save money and buy an OUYA cheaper, there's nothing stopping you from looking on auction websites. I myself saved about 10% by getting a used OUYA from a local used games store.

TwoSquidGames
01-18-2014, 10:14 PM
Funny you should link to that -- I was looking at that auction earlier. $58 plus $17 shipping, that's $75. Only $15 off the best new price. Barely worth it.
BUT IT GETS BETTER -- the darn thing closed for $67 + $17 shipping = $85. Just FIVE DOLLARS off the best new price. For the 5 bucks I'll take a new one thanks. I'm not THAT desperate.
If I can afford $85, I can certainly afford $90 for new.

Just for starters, the NEW one I can resell much higher. "Played only a few times by a 37 year old non-smoker, no pets, etc." but with the used one I can't say any of that. Especially when that used one reeks of cigarette smoke and dog and might even have dog hairs sticking out of it *grin*

undftdroar
01-19-2014, 06:04 AM
maybe try the ouya reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/ouya

you could make a topic and ask if anyone is looking to sell their ouya, I've seen a few people offer to sell before.

Nightfall
01-19-2014, 08:07 AM
maybe try the ouya reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/ouya

you could make a topic and ask if anyone is looking to sell their ouya, I've seen a few people offer to sell before.
I just spent that last 30 minutes going through a bunch of those reddit threads. I saw a guy apparently so upset with his Ouya that he threw it in the toilet, peed on it, and put it on Youtube? What is wrong with people?

OP keep an eye on www.shopgoodwill.com

undftdroar
01-19-2014, 08:29 AM
I just spent that last 30 minutes going through a bunch of those reddit threads. I saw a guy apparently so upset with his Ouya that he threw it in the toilet, peed on it, and put it on Youtube? What is wrong with people?

OP keep an eye on www.shopgoodwill.com




supposedly it's this guy named Rocco from Mega64 who did that to the ouya, idk if it's really him i just read it somewhere.

about the ouya reddit there is a guy name FUouya who has made it his life mission to steer potential buyers away lol.

TwoSquidGames
01-19-2014, 09:56 PM
.

(Changed my mind)

timmytot666
01-19-2014, 10:37 PM
I understand you're trying to make a profit from this and you don't want to spend money on a dev kit. Its part of it though.. I'm sure that ouya will probably give it up to you for reduced or free.

But you pointed out how you would rather spend money on the controller or a test tablet or a used smart phone or your google play developer costs.

I can't believe it.. they are offering you a developer station without charging you like google or ios would and it still isn't enough even though its the cheapest (and some people say easiest) process to get on any system included google play.

You could have saved the money on any of those and spent it on the ouya; especially the moga controller since it can use basic bluetooth hid and you added the ability to remap controls in your game so that part makes me more confused.

I wish you luck, I personally wouldn't send you an ouya or build a dev specific version because the base model is so cheap. If ouya doesn't decide to help you out id suggest a kickstarter for 200 bucks so the two of you can both get an ouya system if you're really that strapped for cash.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

RiotingSpectre
01-19-2014, 10:53 PM
I support the idea of more purchasing options and all that, but as Timmy said I don't agree with what lead up to you wanting those extra options. You should have played your cards better.

Jon_TWR
01-20-2014, 05:08 AM
Dude, seriously...it's $100. Your letter comes across as really whiny. If your game is so great, why isn't it generating enough extra revenue that you can afford $100 for an Ouya? Maybe it's not as great as you think it is.

Launch a kickstarter for $100, or $150 (for an Ouya and second controller) so you can port your game to the Ouya. If you can't get even $100 from kickstarter, maybe you need to work on your game more.

TwoSquidGames
01-20-2014, 05:35 AM
I didn't mean to come across whiny -- I am just frustrated, that's all.

I guess it's hard for some people to think outside their own personal situation. It's hard to imagine being married when you're single, for example. I guess that's normal and human so I won't fault anyone for that.

I am treating this like a business. I don't want to LOSE money creating a game. And what if my game doesn't make much? It's very possible. I don't want to risk any more than I have to.

Anyhow, I'm taking about 7 people's advice at once and setting up a Kickstarter. That's what I should have done with all my energy instead of writing that open letter.

Schizophretard
01-20-2014, 06:32 AM
The OUYA is advertised on the box as a dev kit and everyone is invited to use it as one. It is also the console itself. OUYA has lowered the price of entry for developers down to an equal level as gamers. Some have paid for it to play games, some have paid for it to make games, and some have paid for it for both. I understand that you are looking for a cheaper option but your request to OUYA seems unfair to everyone else and like you are asking for special treatment.

TwoSquidGames
01-20-2014, 06:55 AM
The OUYA is advertised on the box as a dev kit and everyone is invited to use it as one. It is also the console itself. OUYA has lowered the price of entry for developers down to an equal level as gamers. Some have paid for it to play games, some have paid for it to make games, and some have paid for it for both. I understand that you are looking for a cheaper option but your request to OUYA seems unfair to everyone else and like you are asking for special treatment.

On the contrary, I've been quite philosophical and "big picture" about the whole thing, asking for a solution for all developers in my situation.

I was also quite clear that I'm not out to get a free or cheap game console. I would prefer they fixed their broken so-called "free" Ouya Developer Kit. It doesn't do any good anymore, since the contents can't be installed anymore. Not on an Android, and not on a virtual machine. What good is it now? It's been broken since May 2013. That's a long time to lock out developers who didn't buy OUYA hardware.

Take Android for example. A new developer for Android could use virtual machines to do most tasks. If real-world performance needed to be known, a cheap used smartphone could be had for $50. I've seen cheap tablets at Wal-Mart for $29 or $39. The OUYA is quite a bit more. Even used they're about $85. For that much, might as well get a new one!

How many Android devices have sold, and how many OUYA have sold? 1 billion Android devices, vs. 130K OUYA consoles.

Whatever money I invested developing an Android game can be recouped via 30+ app stores. OUYA is only one relatively small market.

Killswitch
01-20-2014, 11:01 AM
I wasn't going to say anything but you do seem to be all over the place.

I understand you wanting to be able to buy just the box. But here's the problem with that, you need to be sure it works with THEIR controller. Having just any external controller is not going to work as evidenced by some of the games here. I sit back and look at how many people say "the controls suck". I know that no matter what idea I put out there it has to work with the Ouya controller FIRST, everything else is 2nd.

Now if there was an XMapper or some type of controller software like that then it's different.

Someone mentioned a Kickstarter. Not a bad idea if it's only about the Ouya itself.

It seems as if you may have went backwards on where your cash went. Using iOS, Android and Ouya as your primaries. Ouya and Android have a common base. You say you can go to 30+ storefronts for Android. So wouldn't that cover your Ouya costs if that's the case? iOS has the biggest fee for entry, so that should be last one the list. You can get Ouyas for $50-60 if you look hard enough. People are posting they're finding them at Goodwills, etc. Ask them where, maybe it's right in your hood, who knows. I know I've been posting the shopgoodwill link and contests to win them and all that.

MOGA controller if it's not being used for other things, would have been my last purchase. Why would that come before the things that are needed? The other purchases (Raspberry Pi? Really?)...no comment.

I posted way back that Ouya should probably have some dev kit program and not because it's expensive but there may be times where someone is struggling or something but they may have the passion for it. They give them away to companies who have no intention of developing for Ouya so why not help those who want to but have some type of "string attached".

I don't know if your heart is in the right place (always hated that saying) but the cash isn't.

If you want to blindly run a development scenario with XYZ controller that's up to you but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the one controller you actually should have.

Are you actually trying to get this thing on Ouya because your site has no indication of that. You have the Raspberry Pi mentions which is as underground as it gets. Not underground like no one knows of it but that market is even more niche than Ouya.

Not trying to rain on your parade but you are kind of all over the place and in the end it ends up not making sense to anyone who does even the slightest bit of reading.

iprice
01-20-2014, 11:15 AM
I posted way back that Ouya should probably have some dev kit program and not because it's expensive but there may be times where someone is struggling or something but they may have the passion for it.
Actually, there is. You just have to ask...

I know several UK developers that went to OUYA and asked for the opportunity to develop for it and for dev devices. They proved that they were established devs and got kits sent to them for free. And it all happened very quickly. the kits might have been refurbs etc. but they all worked without problem. Several of those devs have already released games on the store.

Killswitch
01-20-2014, 11:22 AM
Actually, there is. You just have to ask...

I know several UK developers that went to OUYA and asked for the opportunity to develop for it and for dev devices. They proved that they were established devs and got kits sent to them for free. And it all happened very quickly. the kits might have been refurbs etc. but they all worked without problem. Several of those devs have already released games on the store.
Established. Probably different in that case but not everyone is at the point where they can say that. That was more my intent, the ones who aren't in that place where they can say "I did this, that and this".

But if there is a build of the game...I wonder if that counts.

iprice
01-20-2014, 12:11 PM
Established - maybe, maybe not.

I'm not saying that they won't give dev kits to people without finished products - it's just that the people I know who asked all had experience and "finished" products (not necessarily commercially released products either). I'm sure demos (for any format) would also help.

There's no harm in asking. If you have ideas, then make them clear - state what you want to create, how you're going to do it etc. Maybe enthusiasm will help to sway the deal.

Killswitch
01-20-2014, 12:18 PM
Well no one of us can figure out how they operate anyway. Ouya Inc is an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

Seen so many companies get free Ouyas with no intention of developing for it and others get ignored who actually want to develop for it.

Either way, dude is all over the place. If I'm going to present myself as a person in need then I would not talk about a MOGA controller which isn't cheap or have posts about a Raspberry Pi which is even more niche than Ouya. Then say the Ouya is too expensive or shouldn't come with a controller.

iprice
01-20-2014, 12:19 PM
Yeah, I agreed with everything you said. Just thought I'd mention my colleagues experience about the dev programme though.

timmytot666
01-20-2014, 02:18 PM
I agree they should fix their dev tools as well. I know I didn't touch on that but if it were working then this wouldn't even be a forums post. I figured I should chime in that their odk should work.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

mmartino
01-20-2014, 03:52 PM
I wish this would be made available.

I really need an OUYA for testing, but I've spent so much on test hardware, and haven't made much back yet.

One of the things I purchased was a MOGA bluetooth controller -- which would work with the OUYA. So instead of spending $100 on an OUYA + controller, I should be spending $50 or $60 on the console itself.

I can't afford to buy anything twice.

I haven't seen a "controller-less OUYA" for sale anywhere though -- new or used.

I don't have any extra consoles but I do have extra controllers. If you dev without the Ouya controller there is a very good chance your game won't work anyway. If you are developing a game for the Ouya, then please let me know if you get a console and I will send you a free controller so at least we won't end up with more shovel-ware that doesn't work right

Killswitch
01-20-2014, 04:12 PM
I don't have any extra consoles but I do have extra controllers. If you dev without the Ouya controller there is a very good chance your game won't work anyway. If you are developing a game for the Ouya, then please let me know if you get a console and I will send you a free controller so at least we won't end up with more shovel-ware that doesn't work right
I accept all extra controllers for customization purposes :p

Doubt he will find one without a controller. And I really don't see why you'd want that...

TwoSquidGames
01-20-2014, 05:24 PM
Actually, there is. You just have to ask...

I know several UK developers that went to OUYA and asked for the opportunity to develop for it and for dev devices. They proved that they were established devs and got kits sent to them for free. And it all happened very quickly. the kits might have been refurbs etc. but they all worked without problem. Several of those devs have already released games on the store.

Well, unfortunately that program is over. I wrote to OUYA and they wouldn't even give me so much as a $10 discount, even though I have a finished game to port. Believe me, I already tried simply asking them.


Well no one of us can figure out how they operate anyway. Ouya Inc is an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

Seen so many companies get free Ouyas with no intention of developing for it and others get ignored who actually want to develop for it.

Either way, dude is all over the place. If I'm going to present myself as a person in need then I would not talk about a MOGA controller which isn't cheap or have posts about a Raspberry Pi which is even more niche than Ouya. Then say the Ouya is too expensive or shouldn't come with a controller.

Yes, I realize it would be best to test with the OUYA controller. I was just willing to "give a little", that's all. Again, I'm not looking for a HUGE favor here; I was just hoping for some consideration for the fact I'm not made of money, and that I'm really not looking for an OUYA "for fun". It truly would be a piece of work equipment for me. I have my fun in the Eclipse IDE, not on a TV set (unless its my game). Deep down I'm still a gamer; it's just that they have to be my games now for me to enjoy them. Everything else is like teasing me.

To answer your question, *yes* I'm trying to bring my game to OUYA.

Anyhow, regarding the MOGA, which many people have brought up --

It's not a simple bluetooth gamepad. MOGA has a driver that you include in your programs. They have 2 "modes" -- A and B. Mode B is bluetooth mode. That's how I test my game with bluetooth controllers. However, there is also mode A which talks to the driver. In fact, if you want to launch the game, THEN turn on your controller and have the whole thing work, you have to use Mode A. I actually prefer mode A.

Well, long story short, there is no way I could have done the days of MOGA development work that I did without buying a MOGA.

I'm glad I have full MOGA support, because that's one of the main/best bluetooth gamepads for Android (again, 1 billion devices) and my game REALLY needs a controller. I'm not exaggerating here. Also, MOGA will include your game in their library of titles if you have full MOGA support (if you pass a certain checklist, more or less) which my game does.

So it seemed necessary at the time.

Also, let's remember that hindsight is 20/20. I didn't even KNOW that OUYA's ODK installation on non-OUYA hardware was broken! In fact, I had very good reason to believe it was NOT. I read over ALL the docs on the OUYA site months ago, including the part about how to set up "alternate developement environments" and how to install the Framework and Launcher on your Android or virtual machine. How was I supposed to know that wouldn't work?

As for the Pi, that's a little complicated. First of all, I bought it BEFORE I found out I was "stuck" without an OUYA console. Also, it really is a great device for someone like me, since I'm already used to the Linux software library. (i.e., so much software that I use on a daily basis is available there). It's everything I thought my 10" tablet would be 2 years ago. So I can't really say I regret buying it. 2 million Raspberry Pi's have been sold as of October 31, 2013 (so that doesn't count the one I bought! hahaha) so even though many of them are used as coffee makers and weather balloons, there are still plenty being used as desktop computers. And there's an actual Raspberry Pi store with 39 games, about half of which are non-free. And in hindsight, now that I got my game working on that platform with little modification, I am really glad I did it.

But that's the problem -- to get this working on the Pi I *needed* to buy one. Same with Android, desktop, Moga, and now OUYA. Everyone wants me to spend "just $100" to enter their platform, but guess what? The average 1st game makes $300 - $400 total. Games just don't make that much.

I'm not ripping on OUYA as a platform. I'm actually very excited about it. I'm just locked out, that's all. But I will acknowledge the truth that it's a small niche market right now. Best estimates are 130,000 units shipped. The Raspberry Pi has shipped well over 2 million. So you can't love the OUYA while knocking the Pi :)

The Pi is as powerful as the original Xbox. It can decode and play back 1080p video. It outputs HDMI *and* component video (the yellow RCA plug). And if you have an SDcard laying around, as well as a USB cable and powered USB hub (or a smartphone charger you can plug a USB cable into), and maybe some Legos to build a case for it, the thing only costs you $42 shipped. It is neat in its own right, just like the OUYA. I wouldn't call them competitors though...

And I would also like to throw out there that everything is different for a single guy vs. a married guy with a family. When you're living at home, you usually get to spend all your McDonald's income on yourself. I was in that boat for many years myself. I'd bring home a nice PC tech paycheck and spend the whole thing on Anime VHS tapes in Japanese with English subtitles, Japanese Dreamcast games, or a Japanese Zelda 64 cartridge. But it doesn't work that way for us family men. In fact, I'm lucky I managed to donate so many hundreds of hours to writing this game. But I can't throw lots of money AND time at it. I simply don't have the resources.


Merged. Please Use The Edit Button Next Time.

Schizophretard
01-20-2014, 10:41 PM
Take Android for example. A new developer for Android could use virtual machines to do most tasks. If real-world performance needed to be known, a cheap used smartphone could be had for $50. I've seen cheap tablets at Wal-Mart for $29 or $39. The OUYA is quite a bit more. Even used they're about $85. For that much, might as well get a new one!

But what is the comparison with the prices of getting your game on other consoles because the OUYA isn't a phone? Anyway, I don't know the reason why OUYA isn't doing the virtual machine thing but I suspect that it has something to do with the OUYA only meant to run on an OUYA. Maybe they are concerned that anybody including gamers would emulate OUYA on other devices? It kind of seems like it could be an OUYA emulator and since the OUYA is a dev kit every OUYA owner is in a sense a dev. In other words, OUYA doesn't pick and choose who is a dev but all of us make that choice. So, if they allow you to emulate an OUYA then why not everyone else? Anyone could just say they are a dev, get one, and start gaming without buying an OUYA. If they say,"No, you are not a dev but a gamer." then they would be saying something more closed than they do with the console.

spinal
01-21-2014, 09:29 AM
If you can't afford an OUYA right now, then just put a little money aside until you can. If you are really desperate to develop on the OUYA, then find a way to buy an OUYA, complaining that they aren't as cheap as other unrelated products goes nowhere to buying one. If the cost is putting you off, then simply don't bother. If the cost of the OUYA is going to lower your estimated profit by too much, then just simply don't bother.
Also, you complained about a used OUYA + shipping costing almost as much an a new OUYA, assuming without shipping, which would give a similar saving if paying the same amount of shipping charges in each scenario. I don't see what there is to complain about there.

Kaimega
01-21-2014, 04:44 PM
And I would also like to throw out there that everything is different for a single guy vs. a married guy with a family. When you're living at home, you usually get to spend all your McDonald's income on yourself. I was in that boat for many years myself. I'd bring home a nice PC tech paycheck and spend the whole thing on Anime VHS tapes in Japanese with English subtitles, Japanese Dreamcast games, or a Japanese Zelda 64 cartridge. But it doesn't work that way for us family men. In fact, I'm lucky I managed to donate so many hundreds of hours to writing this game. But I can't throw lots of money AND time at it. I simply don't have the resources.

A number of the devs here (including myself) all have our families to take care of too, so it isn't really fair to make this assumption. Some do this full time as well, others part-time when they get the chance between work and their families. I am also sure a good chunk of them (again, including myself) saved up to buy an Ouya for dev work.

Testing on an emulator will not give the same results as testing on an actual device, same goes for bluetooth controllers. It is evident by some of the awful-functioning games games that are currently out there. Sometimes the lowest cost out of it all is the price of the device itself, instead of the time it takes blindly testing it, or testing via emulators. Not buying the device, you are doubling your time and effort to get the game created and released.

TwoSquidGames
01-21-2014, 07:48 PM
Also, you complained about a used OUYA + shipping costing almost as much an a new OUYA, assuming without shipping, which would give a similar saving if paying the same amount of shipping charges in each scenario. I don't see what there is to complain about there.

To clear up your confusion -- the new one doesn't have any shipping charges. At least two online retailers offer free shipping on the $99.99 console.

Moreover, a certain A to Z retailer has sold the console new for as little as $89.99 with free shipping. Like the returns counter at Wal-Mart, I consider something's "value" to be the lowest price it's been sold for in the past 3 months :smug:

mmartino
01-21-2014, 09:49 PM
To clear up your confusion -- the new one doesn't have any shipping charges. At least two online retailers offer free shipping on the $99.99 console.

Moreover, a certain A to Z retailer has sold the console new for as little as $89.99 with free shipping. Like the returns counter at Wal-Mart, I consider something's "value" to be the lowest price it's been sold for in the past 3 months :smug:

Well in that case a month ago a guy posted on reddit that he got one at Goodwill for $12.50. I don't know if you will beat that but good luck!

TwoSquidGames
01-21-2014, 09:55 PM
Well in that case a month ago a guy posted on reddit that he got one at Goodwill for $12.50. I don't know if you will beat that but good luck!

hahaha -- yeah, I have my doubts about that. Goodwill isn't a garage sale. It's quite a money-grubbing corporation actually. They get all their merchandise for free, but charge top dollar for everything. For example, if a used console is worth at most $50, they are likely to charge: $50. Like I said, not a garage sale. At the Salvation Army you might get a good deal once in a while, and I've picked up some incredible deals at garage sales over the years. Even Craigslist is a better deal than Goodwill. You have to find someone in the mood to sell, however. I've seen rip-offs there too.

mmartino
01-21-2014, 09:59 PM
hahaha -- yeah, I have my doubts about that. Goodwill isn't a garage sale. It's quite a money-grubbing corporation actually. They get all their merchandise for free, but charge top dollar for everything. For example, if a used console is worth at most $50, they are likely to charge: $50. Like I said, not a garage sale. At the Salvation Army you might get a good deal once in a while, and I've picked up some incredible deals at garage sales over the years. Even Craigslist is a better deal than Goodwill. You have to find someone in the mood to sell, however. I've seen rip-offs there too.

I don't know about that. I used to work there and we priced everything dirt cheap. For this system we would have marked it 20-30 but hey if you want craigs list go for it. Just let me know if you get one and I will send you a controller

TwoSquidGames
01-21-2014, 10:05 PM
Maybe it's our demographics here, I don't know -- everyone who has an OUYA around here is hanging on to it. There are zero on Craigslist and I'm looking at the San Antonio, TX Craigslist -- one of the top 10 cities population-wise. But I can't even check Goodwill -- I'm a good 1/2 hour from the nearest one, and I seldom leave the house (I work from home). It wouldn't be worth the gas to keep trying. Of course I'd look if I was ever in the area, out of curiosity if nothing else. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll think of something (I'm still waiting on my Amazon Payments to verify so I can start a Kickstarter)

Nitrogen_Widget
01-21-2014, 10:33 PM
hahaha -- yeah, I have my doubts about that. Goodwill isn't a garage sale. It's quite a money-grubbing corporation actually. They get all their merchandise for free, but charge top dollar for everything. For example, if a used console is worth at most $50, they are likely to charge: $50. Like I said, not a garage sale. At the Salvation Army you might get a good deal once in a while, and I've picked up some incredible deals at garage sales over the years. Even Craigslist is a better deal than Goodwill. You have to find someone in the mood to sell, however. I've seen rip-offs there too.

17" HP monitor's for $15 currently at my good will.

TwoSquidGames
01-21-2014, 10:38 PM
Is that for a CRT, or a flat screen? For a CRT that's about what it would be worth. If it's an LCD, that's a pretty decent price depending on the condition.