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HeadClot
01-06-2014, 04:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GkJ5PupShfk

Hey everyone!

I have recently purchased an OUYA and I am loving it. :D

With that said - I have recently discovered via Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/05/unreal-engine-4-nvidia-k1/) the Tegra K1 System on a Chip (SoC)

This is really a game changer for both Mobile market and Platforms like the OUYA here is why.

1. It can take advantage of OpenGL 4.4 Which effectivly means that we can have more graphical fidelity in our games.
2. Uses the Kepler GPU Architecture found in Nvidia GPUs.
3. Cross Platform - We would be able to in theory use one code base to deploy our games to Mobile and Desktop Platforms.
4. Catching up with the PC in terms of graphics.

With that said - With the following points made would you agree or disagree on using the K1 SoC in the OUYA 2?

James Andrew Coote
01-06-2014, 04:45 PM
The main issue is the cost. NVidia will want to sell this new chipset at a premium price to manufacturers of high end devices at first. OUYA meanwhile will want to keep the cost under $100. The other problem is that this is unlikely to come out in time for use in OUYA 2 (assuming OUYA 2 is launched in the first half of this year, which would make sense, since it'd be 1 year in March since they first started shipping, and 1 year at the end of June since it's been available for general retail in shops / on Amazon)

HeadClot
01-06-2014, 04:54 PM
The main issue is the cost. NVidia will want to sell this new chipset at a premium price to manufacturers of high end devices at first. OUYA meanwhile will want to keep the cost under $100. The other problem is that this is unlikely to come out in time for use in OUYA 2 (assuming OUYA 2 is launched in the first half of this year, which would make sense, since it'd be 1 year in March since they first started shipping, and 1 year at the end of June since it's been available for general retail in shops / on Amazon)

Doh...

I completely forgot about those points. But we will have to wait and see when the K1 becomes available.

Cottiny
01-06-2014, 06:42 PM
It would be difficult to maintain the 99$ price with Tegra K1, but yeah, if OUYA 2 will come with Tegra K1 and 2GB RAM, it could be relevant in sales.

Jake53
01-06-2014, 06:59 PM
IF the Ouya 2 costs $200 with this chip I will gladly pay for it. The Ouya 2 could actually start a revolution if it is that powerful and has those quality graphics.



The main issue is the cost. NVidia will want to sell this new chipset at a premium price to manufacturers of high end devices at first. OUYA meanwhile will want to keep the cost under $100. The other problem is that this is unlikely to come out in time for use in OUYA 2 (assuming OUYA 2 is launched in the first half of this year, which would make sense, since it'd be 1 year in March since they first started shipping, and 1 year at the end of June since it's been available for general retail in shops / on Amazon)

I would rather the Ouya not release a new console this year (opting for next year) and get this chip then to use something like tegra 4 (or move away from tegra) in the mean time.

HeadClot
01-06-2014, 08:23 PM
IF the Ouya 2 costs $200 with this chip I will gladly pay for it. The Ouya 2 could actually start a revolution if it is that powerful and has those quality graphics.

I would pay 200.00 USD for a OUYA with a K1 Chipset as well :)

I think Nvidia said that they plan to have the chip-set into Consumers hands by June of this year. Could some one chime in on this?

But personally I would like to develop for the OUYA with this Chipset :D

darth2d2
01-06-2014, 09:45 PM
I would be ok with Ouya using the 32-bit version with ARM architecture. The 64-bit Kepler Architecture is a gamble because Ouya would have to install an ARM chip to operate the OS. Kepler architecture is strictly built for GPU processing. Nvidia must have plans to use the chip as a support chip for smaller Graphics cards or even as an Integrated graphics processor.

Killswitch
01-06-2014, 09:45 PM
I don't see how it's possible. That chip might cost more than that by itself it looks like. Might drop though since they have an uphill battle against 2 other chips who will probably drop their prices by the time K1 is out.

Cheap Snapdragon board is $150 right now.
Would like to hope K1 can be in this range but that's more than $200 out the door.

Victor Coleiro
01-06-2014, 10:05 PM
Lets set the record straight once and for all.

SOCs are inexpensive. They range from $12 (RK3188 - Cheap chinese SOC) to under $30 (Latest Intel Baytrail Quad). Id say the difference between using the T4 and T5 would be ~ $10 or less. Now that might not sound much in absolute terms, but remember that represents about a 66% increase in price. From what I've heard from people in the industry , the newly released T4 costs $21 as of several months ago. The T3 in December 2012 cost around $15 (probably what Ouya were locked into). Remember , Julie is on record as saying they would have used the T4 for Ouya if the timing was a bit better and they were aware of it.

So the Ouya 2 could use the Tegra 5 , they could absorb the $10 increase as you would imagine the R&D that needs to be amortized will be smaller than last time round with the Ouya 1. But at the worst it could mean the Ouya 2 with a T5 is $10 or maybe even $15 more. As I said before , Even if you take the worst case scenario and an Ouya 2 with T5 ends up $115, then I think it's fair to say way more people would go for a T5 Ouya 2 at $115 than those would go for a $100 T4 Ouya 2 . Imagine if you had the choice today to buy the Ouya with T3 at $100 or T4 at $115 - which would you buy?.

It will come down to timing and availability, that's very true - they will also want to fulfill larger orders first. But I suspect the Ouya 2 won't be out until the holiday season - around November or early December. IF the T5 comes out when Nvidia are saying it will - ie that it will appear in devices before end of June , then the Ouya 2 will well and truely have time to launch with it by Novemeber/December. Basically were talking the same timing the Tegra 4 came out and when it was adopted and released in the Mojo .

Outlander999
01-07-2014, 12:01 AM
I hope for the use of Tegra 5 (K1) in the next OUYA2.

After ALL the bad marketing we seen, OUYA INC. really (....REALLY) need to shock the people with an incredibly good product.

Go Julie, go! Do it!!!

cthulhu
01-07-2014, 12:03 AM
Nvidia should just buy Ouya and be done with it. They clearly want a piece of the console market, just look at the way they responded to AMD getting the design wins for both the PS4 and Xbox One. That was jealousy pure and simple.

Kaimega
01-07-2014, 12:31 AM
Nvidia should just buy Ouya and be done with it. They clearly want a piece of the console market, just look at the way they responded to AMD getting the design wins for both the PS4 and Xbox One. That was jealousy pure and simple.

They won't for two reasons:

1. Ouya won't sell (plus they are more of the 'budget' SHIELD in NVIDIA's eyes)
2. They have the SHIELD - the premium Android console schtick thing.

cthulhu
01-07-2014, 12:44 AM
They won't for two reasons:

1. Ouya won't sell (plus they are more of the 'budget' SHIELD in NVIDIA's eyes)

So Nvidia's investment in Ouya is a complete waste of money?


2. They have the SHIELD - the premium Android console schtick thing.

Yes, but that is a current generation product. Anything using the K1 will be a step beyond the Shield performance-wise.

fireballs
01-09-2014, 09:18 AM
Lets set the record straight once and for all.

SOCs are inexpensive. They range from $12 (RK3188 - Cheap chinese SOC) to under $30 (Latest Intel Baytrail Quad). Id say the difference between using the T4 and T5 would be ~ $10 or less. Now that might not sound much in absolute terms, but remember that represents about a 66% increase in price. From what I've heard from people in the industry , the newly released T4 costs $21 as of several months ago. The T3 in December 2012 cost around $15 (probably what Ouya were locked into). Remember , Julie is on record as saying they would have used the T4 for Ouya if the timing was a bit better and they were aware of it.

So the Ouya 2 could use the Tegra 5 , they could absorb the $10 increase as you would imagine the R&D that needs to be amortized will be smaller than last time round with the Ouya 1. But at the worst it could mean the Ouya 2 with a T5 is $10 or maybe even $15 more. As I said before , Even if you take the worst case scenario and an Ouya 2 with T5 ends up $115, then I think it's fair to say way more people would go for a T5 Ouya 2 at $115 than those would go for a $100 T4 Ouya 2 . Imagine if you had the choice today to buy the Ouya with T3 at $100 or T4 at $115 - which would you buy?.

It will come down to timing and availability, that's very true - they will also want to fulfill larger orders first. But I suspect the Ouya 2 won't be out until the holiday season - around November or early December. IF the T5 comes out when Nvidia are saying it will - ie that it will appear in devices before end of June , then the Ouya 2 will well and truely have time to launch with it by Novemeber/December. Basically were talking the same timing the Tegra 4 came out and when it was adopted and released in the Mojo .

You're throwing out some numbers there, mind providing us some links? From all my research the things you are saying doesn't sound accurate.

Nightfall
01-09-2014, 09:24 AM
You're throwing out some numbers there, mind providing us some links? From all my research the things you are saying doesn't sound accurate.
He's also assuming that Ouya would sell their product for exactly how much it would cost themselves because they make their money off software. I do find it hard to believe they are selling their hardware with zero (to the penny) profit margin even given they are counting on 30% of software sales.

flamepanther
01-09-2014, 09:51 AM
So Nvidia's investment in Ouya is a complete waste of money?He means OUYA Inc won't sell their company to nVidia, not that the OUYA console won't sell, just in case that wasn't clear. Buying out the whole company is not exactly the most common reason to invest in one. If you had stock in IBM, would you consider it a waste because you can't buy out the rest?

fireballs
01-09-2014, 10:03 AM
He means OUYA Inc won't sell their company to nVidia, not that the OUYA console won't sell, just in case that wasn't clear. Buying out the whole company is not exactly the most common reason to invest in one. If you had stock in IBM, would you consider it a waste because you can't buy out the rest?

Bad example, IBM is still huge so of course you won't be able to buy them out. Just about every week one of the major mobile manufacturers buy out a much smaller up and coming company.

Everyone has a price, ouya isn't doing great that's for sure, so what leads you guys believe ouya wouldn't sell?

Victor Coleiro
01-09-2014, 10:21 AM
@fireballs

Figures are based on what I've heard coming from industry insiders.

@Nightfall , not assuming that at all.

I know it's hard for people to understand that SOCs are inexpensive, probably due to decades of being exposed to the high prices of Intel CPUs. I get that, but in reality SOCs are inexpensive. SOCs are inexpensive to make but more importantly there is a huge amount of competition in the space. I think there is something like a dozen companies making them, and the competition is cutthroat.

flamepanther
01-09-2014, 10:25 AM
Bad example, IBM is still huge so of course you won't be able to buy them out.That's the point. I can't think of an example that makes it any more bleeding obvious that buying whole companies is not the be-all-end-all of investing in them.
Just about every week one of the major mobile manufacturers buy out a much smaller up and coming company.And?
Everyone has a price, ouya isn't doing great that's for sure, so what leads you guys believe ouya wouldn't sell?Kaimega will have to field that one. I said that investing in a company without buying them out isn't necessarily a waste. I have no strong opinion on whether they would sell out or not.

Kaimega
01-09-2014, 04:12 PM
There was an interview I read about Julie (I wish I could remember which.. one of Killswitch's hundreds of interviews he posted :D) Julie said, in that interview, that she wasn't looking to sell anytime soon, and that they will be around quite some time. Now This was a more recent interview either.. I wish I could remember what article it was though..

darth2d2
01-09-2014, 04:17 PM
So Nvidia's investment in Ouya is a complete waste of money?



Yes, but that is a current generation product. Anything using the K1 will be a step beyond the Shield performance-wise.



You have to admit that the Nvidia business model is of some concern. Why would Nvidia feed the competition there proprietary product? Nvidia stepped beyond the part manufacturing piece when they made Shield. I think Nvidia made K1 for reasons other than their micro-console competitors. That is why the 32 bit version is an ARM instruction set, the one Ouya uses, (think 32 bit Windows, so a maximum of 4 Gig accessible RAM), and the 64 bit chip comes with Nvidia's proprietary Kepler instruction set, which isn't compatible with any other product on the market besides what Nvidia develops.

Ouya needs to get away from Nvidia if they can.

Killswitch
01-09-2014, 04:24 PM
There was an interview I read about Julie (I wish I could remember which.. one of Killswitch's hundreds of interviews he posted :D) Julie said, in that interview, that she wasn't looking to sell anytime soon, and that they will be around quite some time. Now This was a more recent interview either.. I wish I could remember what article it was though..
Yeah that Killswitch guy, what a jerk. Providing all that content to the website and expecting us to read it. :p
I couldn't find which one it was but that was part of one of those interviews.
Holy crap I posted a lot of articles....

I wouldn't expect them to sell any time soon but when you have Venture Capitalists on board that is a possibility. Usually the exit strategy on any business that is funded by VC.

Do I expect it? No. Possible? Anything is possible.

mmartino
01-09-2014, 04:45 PM
Bah I don't know why everyone keeps bringing up a new Ouya. Personally I like mine and don't have a ton of extra money to waste. If somehow mine dies or they release some feature that I have to have sure but if all it does is play games, TV, and basically what it does now then why would I get one lol. Although if the new ones price does go to $200 you can bet I won't be getting one. Why would I want pay for "more" of whatever, when I am enjoying myself and have what I need now lol. I waited since the PS1 for a game system I am willing to buy and I can wait again :)

flamepanther
01-10-2014, 06:54 AM
You have to admit that the Nvidia business model is of some concern. Why would Nvidia feed the competition there proprietary product? Nvidia stepped beyond the part manufacturing piece when they made Shield. I think Nvidia made K1 for reasons other than their micro-console competitors.Their primary business is still selling chips to other manufacturers. K1 will be attractive to phone and tablet makers and keep Nvidia competitive in that market.

That is why the 32 bit version is an ARM instruction set, the one Ouya uses, (think 32 bit Windows, so a maximum of 4 Gig accessible RAM), and the 64 bit chip comes with Nvidia's proprietary Kepler instruction set, which isn't compatible with any other product on the market besides what Nvidia develops.Both versions use an ARM-based CPU and a Kepler-based GPU. The 64-bit "Denver" CPU is customized, but will presumably still run ARM instructions since it is ARM-based. I don't know how they plan on handling the Kepler GPU, but it's unreasonable to expect that it won't have generic OpenGL ES support.

fireballs
01-13-2014, 11:46 PM
That's the point. I can't think of an example that makes it any more bleeding obvious that buying whole companies is not the be-all-end-all of investing in them.

See its not about buying companies that you have already invested in. Google just bought Nest for $3.2 billion. Like I said, everyone has a price. Nest is doing 1,000 times better than Ouya and was still able to be bought out. I guarantee that if one of the biggest players in the mobile really wanted to buy Ouya there wouldn't be anything standing in their way.

You see that's the way the tech industry works these days. If Apple wants better battery technology they don't create it themselves, they buy out some small battery tech company that has recently patented some great new innovative battery tech. Then when they go to use it in the next iPhone they say Apple is designing a whole new battery from the ground up for the new iPhone. Apple will get all the credit but it will be the bought company that really did the innovation.

flamepanther
01-14-2014, 05:53 AM
See its not about buying companies that you have already invested in. Google just bought Nest for $3.2 billion. Like I said, everyone has a price. Nest is doing 1,000 times better than Ouya and was still able to be bought out. I guarantee that if one of the biggest players in the mobile really wanted to buy Ouya there wouldn't be anything standing in their way.It doesn't even matter whether I agree with you on that or not, because that was never the contention. The contention was whether nVidia not buying Ouya Inc means their investment was wasted. Maybe they want to but can't. Maybe they can but don't want to. Either way, if their goal was to buy the company, they wouldn't need to invest in them first to do it. They probably never intended to buy Ouya at all, so why would continuing to not buy them be a waste?


You see that's the way the tech industry works these days. If Apple wants better battery technology they don't create it themselves, they buy out some small battery tech company that has recently patented some great new innovative battery tech. Then when they go to use it in the next iPhone they say Apple is designing a whole new battery from the ground up for the new iPhone. Apple will get all the credit but it will be the bought company that really did the innovation.That happens a lot, but it doesn't always happen that way. Probably not even a majority of the time. Apple also buys new technology in the form of parts from Samsung all the time, and yet they don't even attempt to buy Samsung. Sometimes a partnership is more profitable than a buyout. But only the occasional mergers and buyouts tend to get mentioned in tech news outlets, not the countless mundane partnerships that occur every day.

And in any case, Ouya Inc was never expected to create any new technology that nVidia would want to buy up. I'm sure they expect to get something out of their investment, but new tech and a buyout was obviously never it.

cthulhu
01-14-2014, 07:20 AM
It doesn't even matter whether I agree with you on that or not, because that was never the contention. The contention was whether nVidia not buying Ouya Inc means their investment was wasted. Maybe they want to but can't. Maybe they can but don't want to. Either way, if their goal was to buy the company, they wouldn't need to invest in them first to do it. They probably never intended to buy Ouya at all, so why would continuing to not buy them be a waste?

I should point out that I mistakenly thought "Ouya won't sell" meant "Ouya is doomed", not "Ouya won't sell their business to anyone" which is what was apparently intended.


And in any case, Ouya Inc was never expected to create any new technology that nVidia would want to buy up. I'm sure they expect to get something out of their investment, but new tech and a buyout was obviously never it.

What does new technology have to do with anything? Nvidia are clearly interested in the games console market otherwise Shield wouldn't exist. They'd be buying Ouya in order to consolidate their mutual interests and also to eliminate a competitor. Shield 2 and Ouya 2 could be one and the same...

darth2d2
01-15-2014, 01:06 AM
Their primary business is still selling chips to other manufacturers. K1 will be attractive to phone and tablet makers and keep Nvidia competitive in that market.
Both versions use an ARM-based CPU and a Kepler-based GPU. The 64-bit "Denver" CPU is customized, but will presumably still run ARM instructions since it is ARM-based. I don't know how they plan on handling the Kepler GPU, but it's unreasonable to expect that it won't have generic OpenGL ES support.

I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to have major OpenGL issues from the go. Their support of OpenGL compatable drivers has been an issue for Linux users in the past.

flamepanther
01-15-2014, 05:35 AM
I should point out that I mistakenly thought "Ouya won't sell" meant "Ouya is doomed", not "Ouya won't sell their business to anyone" which is what was apparently intended.I mentioned that I suspected something along those lines. I only continued that line of argument because others decided to contribute to it.

What does new technology have to do with anything? Nvidia are clearly interested in the games console market otherwise Shield wouldn't exist. They'd be buying Ouya in order to consolidate their mutual interests and also to eliminate a competitor. Shield 2 and Ouya 2 could be one and the same...I was responding to fireballs, who used the practice of "buying innovation" to support why nVidia just absolutely needs to buy OUYA as a matter of course. They may or may not have reasons to want to buy OUYA, but it's certainly not a given.

I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to have major OpenGL issues from the go. Their support of OpenGL compatable drivers has been an issue for Linux users in the past.Their support of opensource drivers has been terrible. Their "binary blob" drivers have been somewhat above average compared to other binary linux drivers. But this isn't desktop Linux, which they've been lukewarm on until Valve gave them a kick in the behind. This is mobile, which nVidia has always been aggressive about pushing their way into. I don't think it's comparable.

cthulhu
01-15-2014, 08:57 AM
I mentioned that I suspected something along those lines. I only continued that line of argument because others decided to contribute to it.

Yes, noted.


I was responding to fireballs, who used the practice of "buying innovation" to support why nVidia just absolutely needs to buy OUYA as a matter of course. They may or may not have reasons to want to buy OUYA, but it's certainly not a given.

Ok, but my point still stands. I agree that it's not a given that Nvidia eventually must buy Ouya because of their investment in them but fireballs didn't actually state or imply this. But Nvidia buying Ouya makes sense for at least the two reasons I gave.

flamepanther
01-15-2014, 09:19 AM
Ok, but my point still stands. I agree that it's not a given that Nvidia eventually must buy Ouya because of their investment in them but fireballs didn't actually state or imply this. But Nvidia buying Ouya makes sense for at least the two reasons I gave.There are reasons for and against. I don't personally think nVidia is that dead set on making their own consoles. I think they want to sell parts to companies that are making consoles and mobile devices. Their position in both of those two areas has been slipping. I think the Shield is a slick device to show other companies how desirable their chipsets are in a high-performance mobile device. I think OUYA is a convenient way for them to show that their chipsets are also suitable for budget devices. There's no need for nVidia to make the device themselves when someone else is already planning to take on the cost of doing so.

cthulhu
01-15-2014, 09:56 AM
There's no need for nVidia to make the device themselves when someone else is already planning to take on the cost of doing so.

But what if they do a bad job, as Ouya arguably has? It's hardly a good advertisement for the Tegra 3.

Killswitch
01-15-2014, 10:02 AM
But what if they do a bad job, as Ouya arguably has? It's hardly a good advertisement for the Tegra 3.

NVidia loves to show off their stuff, just don't see them getting into the hardware business by buying Ouya or any of the others even though they do have the cash.

flamepanther
01-15-2014, 10:06 AM
But what if they do a bad job, as Ouya arguably has? It's hardly a good advertisement for the Tegra 3.

If the point for nVidia was to demonstrate that you can make a budget device with it, it doesn't necessarily have to be a successful budget device to be a proof of concept. I don't generally see anyone blaming nVidia for OUYA's various issues, so at the very least it's not backfiring on them. The consistent reports of "it's more powerful than I thought it would be" are even a boon, even if only a slight one.

cthulhu
01-15-2014, 11:28 AM
If the point for nVidia was to demonstrate that you can make a budget device with it, it doesn't necessarily have to be a successful budget device to be a proof of concept.

It certainly has to be successful on some level. But how do you define success? One definition is "sells well" and another is "works well". Some devices which sold poorly are fondly remembered because they achieved the "works well" part, e.g. the Nintendo GameCube and Sega Dreamcast. But the Ouya has failed to either sell or work particularly well and after a wildly successful pre-launch campaign on Kickstarter is now widely viewed as a joke. Years from now, how many ex-Ouya owners do you think will look back on their purchase and regard it as money well spent? Definitely not me.

flamepanther
01-15-2014, 11:51 AM
It certainly has to be successful on some level. But how do you define success? One definition is "sells well" and another is "works well". Some devices which sold poorly are fondly remembered because they achieved the "works well" part, e.g. the Nintendo GameCube and Sega Dreamcast. But the Ouya has failed to either sell or work particularly well and after a wildly successful pre-launch campaign on Kickstarter is now widely viewed as a joke. Years from now, how many ex-Ouya owners do you think will look back on their purchase and regard it as money well spent? Definitely not me.

None of that matters because:

1. As I already mentioned, nobody seems to be blaming nVidia for anything they dislike about OUYA
2. nVidia isn't trying to impress OUYA owners, ex- or otherwise. They're just going to want to get across the message to device manufacturers that their midrange chipsets are affordable.

At the end of the day, even if OUYA fails in every possible way as a console (and I don't think it will), nVidia managed to secure a deal to sell a whole bunch of Tegra 3 chipsets because of their dealings with OUYA. That in and of itself is a win for them on at least one level. If they buy the company, they'll be undoing those sales and also taking on all of the risks that currently belong only to OUYA Inc. I don't think they're going to want to do either of those any time in the forseeable future.

Victor Coleiro
01-15-2014, 12:13 PM
Deviated quite a bit from the thread topic. Perhaps a mod can cut the posts re Nvidia purchasing Ouya into its own thread.

flamepanther
01-15-2014, 12:19 PM
It's only slightly off topic, but I think you're right that it's gone on long enough. It's not going to get anywhere either, since the only people that can really say whether nVidia should buy OUYA is nVidia.

cthulhu
01-15-2014, 12:30 PM
None of that matters because:

1. As I already mentioned, nobody seems to be blaming nVidia for anything they dislike about OUYA

This is beside the point. Your assertion was that a device could be seen as a proof of concept for a Nvidia SoC. I don't disagree with that but my response was that in order for a device to actually achieve this goal it would have to be successful on some level and that I don't think the Ouya particularly has been.


2. nVidia isn't trying to impress OUYA owners, ex- or otherwise. They're just going to want to get across the message to device manufacturers that their midrange chipsets are affordable.

Surely the price alone does this. Of course just being affordable isn't enough.


At the end of the day, even if OUYA fails in every possible way as a console (and I don't think it will), nVidia managed to secure a deal to sell a whole bunch of Tegra 3 chipsets because of their dealings with OUYA. That in and of itself is a win for them on at least one level.

I have a strong feeling that when all is said and done this will be seen as the main achievement here.

The bottom line for me is that I have no faith that Ouya can pull off the Ouya 2 successfully by themselves. They'll certainly need more help than they got last time.

Victor Coleiro
01-15-2014, 12:34 PM
Why can't they pull off an Ouya 2?

Seems to me they went through the toughest learning curve already in producing the current Ouya

In regards to Nvidia buying Ouya, I'd say that's very unlikely for a number of reasons.
Firstly, Nvidia are a premium brand that market quality products at premium profit.
Ouya fits none of those categories, they would be changing their business model to buy the Ouya. Second, they sell their Tegra chips to other Android console makers like Mad Catz and soon Huawei. Nvidia having their own console would piss off those 2 for a start and seriously put off anyone else contemplating a Tegra console.

cthulhu
01-15-2014, 12:41 PM
Why can't they pull off an Ouya 2?

Seems to me they went through the toughest learning curve already in producing the current Ouya

It's only a learning curve if something is actually learned.

Victor Coleiro
01-15-2014, 12:45 PM
^ I think they learned a lot. Why so negative on them in that way?

timmytot666
01-15-2014, 02:26 PM
I will always think my ouya was a purchase well spent. Havnt spent nearly as much as my sibling on his 360 and had more fun then he ever will. Not even mentioning the media capability the platform is more inviting. The ouya 2 will prolly come to fruition no worries here on that. If they use the K1 and dolphin emulator works ill buy it. If not my current hardware works great for everything I use it for.

Anyone who feels like the ouya wasn't successful on any level obviously shouldn't be on their fan site but let's play advocate here.

If it didn't work they would have shut down already, they wouldn't be updating it, they wouldn't be adding games weekly, they wouldn't still be selling.

If they did work but it was done poorly we would see poor sales outside of the initiall funding, we wouldn't still have exclusives coming to the ouya, we wouldn't have the free the games fund (which you can argue that was or wasn't effective but it still exists which in my eyes means they are doing something right), they wouldn't have made that god awful commercial.

Take into account that neither of those routes happened. I've had multiple friends pick up an ouya because they had so much fun with mine. I grabbed one for my mom for christmas so she could replace her apple tv. They have sold out multiple times on multiple websites showing they had more then just the initial sales from kickstarter. I feel like they are doing great things.

Obviously this is my opinion based on things I have observed myself so it could be wrong. But the ouya was far from a failure and as soon as I can emulate gamecube games ill be completely satisfied with it. Whether or not that will come with the ouya 2 we will see. I hope they use the K1 personally.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

CesarYAtique
01-15-2014, 02:30 PM
I have a question: with the tegra k1 would be possible to have an option to change between a mobile mode and a pc mode? They say it has a kepler architechture, but as english is not my language I dont understand the video very well.

fireballs
01-15-2014, 02:32 PM
Why can't they pull off an Ouya 2?

Seems to me they went through the toughest learning curve already in producing the current Ouya

In regards to Nvidia buying Ouya, I'd say that's very unlikely for a number of reasons.
Firstly, Nvidia are a premium brand that market quality products at premium profit.
Ouya fits none of those categories, they would be changing their business model to buy the Ouya. Second, they sell their Tegra chips to other Android console makers like Mad Catz and soon Huawei. Nvidia having their own console would piss off those 2 for a start and seriously put off anyone else contemplating a Tegra console.

The Tegra Note 7 came out a few months after the Nexus 7 and and is cheaper and inferior in every way except the SoC. The Note 7 isn't premium or premium profit. Nvidia does have it's own console, it's called Shield.

Nvidia has been getting it's but kicked by Qualcomm. They also go into less devices than Exynos since Samsung puts them in their mass selling Galaxy S line. How many devices is the Tegra 4 actually in? I'm not saying they are going to buy out OUYA because the shield is far superior to OUYA in every single way already and the OUYA posses no real threat. It just wouldn't ever surprise me in todays business world. OUYA isn't worth a ton of money. Seems to me that Nvidia thinks they need to be more like Samsung and create devices for their SoCs.

Victor Coleiro
01-15-2014, 10:05 PM
A handheld is not a console, you might as well then say the Ouya competes with the million Chinese Android handhelds that are out there or the Vita, 3DS etc. They are two different things aimed at two different markets . Also, the Note 7 is made by EVGA , not Nvidia , Nvidia only make the Shield. (Also, Apart from the screen res, its better than the Nexus 7 ie better SOC, uSD, Stylus support etc)

The point is the Nvidia brand is all about portraying quality and making a profit from the HW (whether that turns out to be the case or not with there final products), that's there brand marketing and positioning. Why would they buy a brand known for all the opposite reasons. They are more likely to just build there own console and start off a new product brand then spend a lot of money trying to turn peoples minds into thinking the Ouya is now a quality brand. As someone (despite a long IT career) , who was thrust into Marketing for 4 years . I can tell you branding perception is a massive thing to companies - its not something they would do lightly at all. Once a brand is associated and perceived to be a certain way, it's almost impossible and takes a lot of marketing dollars to turn that perception around - normally to minimal effect - thus the comment that it would be a more likely hood that they would just create there own console . Especially given these things are just Tegra reference boards anyway.

Plus Nvidia make money on the HW they sell, Ouya makes basically nothing on the HW , their business model is getting profit from a cut on SW sales - something that doesn't fit in with Nvidia's business model at all.

Plus what would Mad Catz and Hauwei think if Nvidia did that, do you think they would be impressed when the manufacturer of the SOC they used now produces a console to compete with them and undercuts them. That would be the last time they use a Tegra SOC and would pretty much stop others entering the space with a Tegra SOC. .

Having said all that, we are way off the thread topic :p

fireballs
01-16-2014, 02:16 AM
A handheld is not a console, you might as well then say the Ouya competes with the million Chinese Android handhelds that are out there or the Vita, 3DS etc. They are two different things aimed at two different markets . Also, the Note 7 is made by EVGA , not Nvidia , Nvidia only make the Shield. (Also, Apart from the screen res, its better than the Nexus 7 ie better SOC, uSD, Stylus support etc)

The point is the Nvidia brand is all about portraying quality and making a profit from the HW (whether that turns out to be the case or not with there final products), that's there brand marketing and positioning. Why would they buy a brand known for all the opposite reasons. They are more likely to just build there own console and start off a new product brand then spend a lot of money trying to turn peoples minds into thinking the Ouya is now a quality brand. As someone (despite a long IT career) , who was thrust into Marketing for 4 years . I can tell you branding perception is a massive thing to companies - its not something they would do lightly at all. Once a brand is associated and perceived to be a certain way, it's almost impossible and takes a lot of marketing dollars to turn that perception around - normally to minimal effect - thus the comment that it would be a more likely hood that they would just create there own console . Especially given these things are just Tegra reference boards anyway.

Plus Nvidia make money on the HW they sell, Ouya makes basically nothing on the HW , their business model is getting profit from a cut on SW sales - something that doesn't fit in with Nvidia's business model at all.

Plus what would Mad Catz and Hauwei think if Nvidia did that, do you think they would be impressed when the manufacturer of the SOC they used now produces a console to compete with them and undercuts them. That would be the last time they use a Tegra SOC and would pretty much stop others entering the space with a Tegra SOC. .

Having said all that, we are way off the thread topic :p

I guess we are just repeating ourselves. Also I thought you had more knowledge on the situation.

Sheild is a console, it has console mode, it can be plugged into the TV and wall at the sane time and can do everything ouya can do and more. Read up on the mojo, so many people wanted it, seen it had problems and went with sheild. Just because something has a screen doesn't make it all of a sudden not compete with mojo and tron, that's just silly, they are already competing with them.

Nvidia makes the Note 7 and Evga just puts their name on it. Any company can put their name on the Note 7. There is a Tegra Note 7 from advent and Gigabyte with the exact same design only different name. I'm not sure you even researched this at all.

Nexus 7 has a better screen, double the ram, wireless charging and updates straight from Google. The only thing the note has is a nice SoC, most people complain about note taking on a 7 inch screen. Either way a premium product or price the Tegra Note 7 is not. Premium is premium specs, premium is expensive.

Seems to me you are debating just to debate.

Victor Coleiro
01-16-2014, 02:42 AM
I'm fully aware the shield can plug into your TV, just like a lot of Android handhelds can and I also believe the Vita can to. I would have thought you would know that. It still doesn't put it in the same category as a console which is the point I made. Do you see the the Vita classed in the console category and compared to a PS2 or any current console?

Ahh, no , EVGA (as do perhaps other )make the Note 7 from Nvidias reference design for it. Look it up. That's why it's not on the Nvidia store and the Shield is. Did you research it ?, obviously not.

As for the EVGA Note 7 which EVGA make, I'd take it over nexus 7 , as the note has uSD which the nexus doesn't, the note also has direct stylus and a stylus, which the nexus 7 doesn't , it has hdmi which the Nexus doesn't, and of course it also has the better SOC . Of course this is a moot point as it's not a product made by Nvidia.

Seems your debating because your info is wrong.

cthulhu
01-16-2014, 02:47 AM
How many devices is the Tegra 4 actually in?

Certainly less than the Tegra 3. With Qualcomm not making any mistakes Nvidia will need to be particularly aggressive with the K1 to turn this decline around. Hopefully this will mean it will be very competitively priced.

fireballs
01-16-2014, 03:02 AM
I'm fully aware the shield can plug into your TV, just like a lot of Android handhelds can and I also believe the Vita can to. I would have thought you would know that. It still doesn't put it in the same category as a console which is the point I made. Do you see the the Vita classed in the console category and compared to a PS2?

Ahh, no , EVGA (as do perhaps other )make the Note 7 from Nvidias reference design for it. Look it up. That's why it's not on the Nvidia store and the Shield is. Did you research it ?, obviously not.

As for the EVGA Note 7 which EVGA make, I'd take it over nexus 7 , as the note has uSD which the nexus doesn't, the note also has direct stylus and a stylus, which the nexus 7 doesn't , and of course it also has the better SOC .
First of are you saying that shield doesn't compete with mojo because it has a screen?

How is it the evga, advent and gigabyte Note 7 all have the same design and specs? Are you saying that 3 different companies went into some dark room and all came out with the exact same design? If they were going to make their own tablet and design it and all why would they need nvidia? Well before the Note 7 came out it was put out in the media that the Tegra Note 7 was coming out and other companies could slap their name on it like 3 companies already did. Evga, gigabyte and advent dont even manufateur tablets.

Victor Coleiro
01-16-2014, 03:06 AM
^ To get started in the 7" tablet market with the T4. Nvidia designed a reference tablet which their PARTNERs picked up and MAKE and SELL. Seriously, did you read my post you quoted at all?

mikes_phone_and_tab
01-16-2014, 06:05 AM
I wouldn't mind Ouya releasing 2 consoles. One with T5 and one with a TK1. Price the T4 model at $100 and the TK1 at $200. That processor plus some serious fine tuning in Ouya's ecosystem and this could potentially make a splash. After all, Ouya may need to abandon some of their initial ideals in order to stay in business and to make the best product. Most importantly they need to really focus on getting their name out there. This is no time to sit around. It's go for broke or go home.

Sent from my LG G2 using Tapatalk Pro

flamepanther
01-16-2014, 06:13 AM
OUYA has already made it clear that they are open to (and want for) other companies to build their own OUYA consoles. Another manufacturer (including nVidia) could make a "premium" version OUYA console with more powerful hardware like K1 right now if they wanted to.

fireballs
01-16-2014, 06:53 AM
^ To get started in the 7" tablet market with the T4. Nvidia designed a reference tablet which their PARTNERs picked up and MAKE and SELL. Seriously, did you read my post you quoted at all?

I did read your post, I also read tech news everyday. Tell me where evgas factory is that they are manufacturing the Tegra Note 7?

Evga, advent and gigabyte don't have tablet factories. They get them made at the same place Nvidia gets all there products manufactured. Evga bought the rights to the Tegra Note 7 and put their name on it. All it is is evgas name on it. Why is that so hard to understand?

Anyway are you trying to say the Note 7 is a premium tablet? Are you trying to say that at $199 its a premium product?

Also if one company buys out another they very seldom keep each business plan separate and completely the same as before the buyout. Usually one transforms the other or they transform each other. If nvidia bought Ouya there would certainly be changes to the business model.

Victor Coleiro
01-16-2014, 06:56 AM
That's correct some of the partners license the design and have it made elsewhere ie not via Nvidia. Ie it's not a product made by Nvidia, but a design they license off Nvidia and get made themselves or probably elsewhere. It's not that hard to understand.

It's exactly the same business model Nvidia have with their graphics cards. They license a reference design to others like Zotac, Gigabyte etc then those companies make it themselves like Zotac do, or get others to make it.

No I'm not saying the note 7 is a premium profit product, that's why Nvidia don't sell it but rather license the design for others to have made and sell. Have a look on Nvidias site, do you see a Nvidia Tegra Note 7 for sale, no, why, because it's not a product they would sell directly themselves under the Nvidia brand. Which is the core point here ie there is no Nvidia branded note 7 that Nvidia sell to the public.

fireballs
01-16-2014, 10:36 AM
That's correct some of the partners license the design and have it made elsewhere ie not via Nvidia. Ie it's not a product made by Nvidia, but a design they license off Nvidia and get made themselves or probably elsewhere. It's not that hard to understand.

It's exactly the same business model Nvidia have with their graphics cards. They license a reference design to others like Zotac, Gigabyte etc then those companies make it themselves like Zotac do, or get others to make it.

No I'm not saying the note 7 is a premium profit product, that's why Nvidia don't sell it but rather license the design for others to have made and sell. Have a look on Nvidias site, do you see a Nvidia Tegra Note 7 for sale, no, why, because it's not a product they would sell directly themselves under the Nvidia brand. Which is the core point here ie there is no Nvidia branded note 7 that Nvidia sell to the public.

So you're saying that nvidia is about premium products but by your theory they only make one product (shield) and it hasn't even been out a year. So if that's the case how would you say they are about premium products?

Victor Coleiro
01-16-2014, 10:47 AM
^ what! , they also sell graphics cards under their brand name to the public. They are known to sell things under their brand name at premium profits under the guise of quality. That's why I said well before the Shield was released that it would be expensive . That's what their brand is all about , quality products at a healthy premium profit. Even their cheaper graphics cards are at healthy profits to them percentage wise. Nvidias brand positioning and perception is similiar to Apples.

IMO, They wouldn't sell an Ouya at almost cost like Ouya do, and then try and get profits from SW sale cuts. If they were into that business model they would have done so with the Shield.

Anyway, that's just my opinion No one can really say what will happen for sure.


UPDATE (in response to your post below): If you like reading stuff on the internets as your source, try these:
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/533217/20140107/evga-tegra-note-7-makes-tech-web.htm#.UuGjl9J9JaQ
From 3 minutes in : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW1DWqwp-DU

fireballs
01-21-2014, 01:13 PM
That's correct some of the partners license the design and have it made elsewhere ie not via Nvidia. Ie it's not a product made by Nvidia, but a design they license off Nvidia and get made themselves or probably elsewhere. It's not that hard to understand.

It's exactly the same business model Nvidia have with their graphics cards. They license a reference design to others like Zotac, Gigabyte etc then those companies make it themselves like Zotac do, or get others to make it.

No I'm not saying the note 7 is a premium profit product, that's why Nvidia don't sell it but rather license the design for others to have made and sell. Have a look on Nvidias site, do you see a Nvidia Tegra Note 7 for sale, no, why, because it's not a product they would sell directly themselves under the Nvidia brand. Which is the core point here ie there is no Nvidia branded note 7 that Nvidia sell to the public.
http://www.droidgamers.com/index.php/tablet-gaming/hardware-and-devices/7143-nvidia-s-tegra-note-7-tablet-gets-its-first-important-software-update

Really weird they call it Nvidias Tegra Note 7. I don't see one mention of EVGA. Maybe that's because the mobile community knows what's up. Just because you silk screen your name on another device doesn't mean it's yours.