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View Full Version : Some Type of DRM Indicator.



Schizophretard
12-14-2013, 12:40 AM
I would suggest that the OUYA provide some type of indication of what kind of DRM a developer chose to implement on their game/app like maybe a button in between MORE INFO and MOVE called,"DRM INFO". It could have things like DRM FREE, ONLINE CHECKS, what parts of the game/app are affected, etc. Currently the OUYA treats all implementations of DRM equally but customers should know this type of information before making a purchase. They shouldn't have to look it up online either. They should be able to use it as a deciding factor to determine if the price is worth it and it would give developers an incentive to offer the best value for their customers. A developer may decide to charge more with DRM FREE or charge less with ONLINE CHECKS. It would also be nice if developers could have the option to sell two versions. For an example, DRM FREE $4.99 or ONLINE CHECKS $2.99.

benhadtue
12-14-2013, 07:28 PM
i would pay more for drm-free.

James Andrew Coote
12-16-2013, 10:22 AM
Thing is, the whole OUYA system is, in a sense, set up to be always online and every game to have some sort of DRM (unless it has a donations type payment model or is just straight up free).

You're kinda talking about these things as if they are bad. They just have a bad reputation because they've been abused by games companies (mostly big corporate ones) in the past, and the games industry has done little to explain why they are good and why they benefit consumers / gamers / players hugely.

Schizophretard
12-16-2013, 05:49 PM
Thing is, the whole OUYA system is, in a sense, set up to be always online and every game to have some sort of DRM (unless it has a donations type payment model or is just straight up free).

You're kinda talking about these things as if they are bad. They just have a bad reputation because they've been abused by games companies (mostly big corporate ones) in the past, and the games industry has done little to explain why they are good and why they benefit consumers / gamers / players hugely.

I understand that all purchased games have a built in DRM with how the purchases work for a one time unlock(I don't really like how that works but that is another topic) but I'm talking about the extra DRM that developers put in like online checks every time a game is loaded or checks even while playing. I would say they are bad in the sense that the customer doesn't know about them until after they have made a purchase. A customer should know beforehand. That is just good business. You don't surprise your customers with features after the fact. They should know what they are getting before sending funds. Here is an example from Amazing Frog:


Just a question: I'm sure it has probably been asked in this 15+ page thread at some point and time, but I don't recall reading it. Does this game require a connection to the Internet to play unlocked? I went to show it off yesterday and the place I was at didn't have any internet to connect too. I noticed at the title screen I got a 'timeout to server' message and I wasn't able to access any of the stuff that I had purchased. (IE: Additional costumes, vs. mode, etc.)

I was kind of bummed, because vs. mode is a lot of fun and I wasn't able to try it, because the game kept telling me I needed to purchase the unlock to get it (which I already did.)


I'd like to know too since I am thinking about purchasing it but this is stopping me from it.


Has anyone been able to confirm if you have to have an internet connection to access any of the content you purchased?


Well, nobody has officially answered yet, but I can tell you what happened to me last night. I've been using Ethernet on my Ouya since day one, but recently switched to wifi since I had moved it in another room. I don't know if it is standard for the Ouya to take a few minutes for the wifi to actually kick in and activate, but last night after I booted my Ouya I went strait into Amazing Frog to play a few rounds and noticed that again, I was getting the 'timeout to server' message and my unlocked content was locked again.

I exited out of the game, went in my network settings and noticed that my wifi hadn't connected yet. So, when it did and it came up, I went back into a second time. The second time, I'm able to get into vs. mode and the additional costumes.

So, unless someone can correct me and tell me otherwise, it DOES appear that this game has to have a connection to the internet for you to access your unlocked content you have paid for.


Oh rats! I was hoping it wouldn't turn out to be that. That really sucks, I do love the game but if it is really bound to needing internet conntection to play the "bought" version, I'm going to have to skip this gem. I don't like games like that hence me never buying FFIII, even though it is a really good game. Really disappointed.


Yeah. Had I know as well, I would have really considered the purchase. It was a shame I took my ouya to a place that had no internet and they were not able to play vs. Mode nor use any of the costumes.


You guys that are concerned about license checks requiring an active internet connection should really reach out to the developers. TowerFall worked the same way at first but Matt Thorson (the developer) updated the game to cache the license to local storage. Now the full purchased game can be played "offline."
It shouldn't work like that at all. The OUYA itself should be as much always online as my computer is which sometimes isn't. The games on the other hand should be up to the developers and up to the customers based on them voting with their dollars. People shouldn't have to contact the developers like in the above example with Matt Thorson to try to get it changed or to find out before making a purchase. They should know before making the purchase by it showing within Discover and based on their choices of rather or not to make a purchase will be their way of reaching out to the developers. If it is a good thing then it doesn't need to be hidden but it being hidden is a bad thing because customers should know what they are paying for. Also, as explained above developers should get the option to sell a DRM version for cheaper and a DRM Free version for more. Just think of the more expensive DRM Free versions as being like an IAP to buy the ability to play offline in situation where you may need to. These situations aren't unlikely hypothetical maybes either. People take their OUYA's to places with no internet access, their internet may be having an issue(happens a lot on this forum), I have a friend that doesn't have the internet and would like to take it to his house, the time when I had to explain why I was gone from here for half a week because I lost my internet, etc. When I lost my internet I was bored. I had no OUYAForum, no Roku, and had satellite TV but I hate it but I did have my OUYA. I was playing The Ur-Quan Masters. What if I wanted to play Amazing Frog and didn't find out that I couldn't until I tried? I would be a little ticked off that Fayju took my money without telling me about this. I still may have paid for it but it would be nice, no I mean, it should be mandatory for customers to know these things before making a purchase. It would be good for the developers, the gamers, and OUYA. It is just good business. Hiding it is bad business.

Eldon.McGuinness
12-16-2013, 07:32 PM
Actually, OUYA recommends devs check every time the game is launched for the status of the receipt and specifically say devs should NOT save purchase statuses as game data, instead relying on the previously said check. [LINK (https://devs.ouya.tv/developers/docs/purchasing)]

Personally I think a game should require at minimum a single receipt check and then every time after that recheck it as noted, but if it is not able to connect to the servers/internet it should default to its last know receipt status. This would help to alleviate the not internet access issue.

Schizophretard
12-16-2013, 10:12 PM
Actually, OUYA recommends devs check every time the game is launched for the status of the receipt and specifically say devs should NOT save purchase statuses as game data, instead relying on the previously said check. [LINK (https://devs.ouya.tv/developers/docs/purchasing)]

Personally I think a game should require at minimum a single receipt check and then every time after that recheck it as noted, but if it is not able to connect to the servers/internet it should default to its last know receipt status. This would help to alleviate the not internet access issue.

I think the developers should do it how they want while letting their customers know how they are doing it.

Eldon.McGuinness
12-16-2013, 10:17 PM
Well I am all for standards, especially with paid apps and a systematic use of DRM, devs need to know that if someone gets a refund they no longer can use the app (at least within best effort of OUYA). With a hodgepodge of DRM methods that would be almost impossible to do and would reflect bad on OUYA. But then again one could always choose to retail their app outside of the OUYA store, that is what I do since I do not agree with their Developers Agreement.

I think my suggestion would cover the issues you have with the checks no?

Schizophretard
12-16-2013, 10:42 PM
Well I am all for standards, especially with paid apps and a systematic use of DRM, devs need to know that if someone gets a refund they no longer can use the app (at least within best effort of OUYA). With a hodgepodge of DRM methods that would be almost impossible to do and would reflect bad on OUYA. But then again one could always choose to retail their app outside of the OUYA store, that is what I do since I do not agree with their Developers Agreement.

I think my suggestion would cover the issues you have with the checks no?

Functionally, it may but just the same, I think it should be stated by the developer with some kind of indicator that lets the customers know that is how they chose to make it work. I think a developer should be able to choose no DRM or choose from any number of methods while at the same time the customers have a right to know what they are paying for.

Edit: What don't you agree to with the Developers Agreement?

Eldon.McGuinness
12-17-2013, 12:29 AM
I'll PM ya as I'm not looking to put OUYA in another PR debocel just yet.