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View Full Version : Remove the always online DRM from every single game



Ironsoul
03-14-2014, 11:40 PM
Okay, maybe that was a bit harsh, the sad (swear word) reality is that there are some publishers out there for some unknown reason who firmly believe that always online DRM will actually help them make more money.

In the first week of owning an Ouya (about a year ago), I bought two games.

Whenever my internet goes down or the crappy wireless on the Ouya(yeah it's crappy, I do plug it in wired now) fails to stay connected to my router, the games would stop working. I thought "this is odd, does Ouya have some sort of always online DRM I wasn't told about?". Turns out that was exactly the case.

Fast forward one year later and I still haven't bought any new games because the always online DRM is still there on most games.

So if you want my custom again, here's what you need to do:

Make the DRM model offline by default
Post what type of DRM is being used in the logo(thumbnail) in the discover page (I don't want to even have to open up the game description to find out)
Patch it so that all current games use the offline DRM unless the developers explicitly ask for always online DRM for each game


Do that and I'll start using my Ouya again, I'll start buying games again and I'll probably even develop for the console.
Don't do that and it'll stay in a box under my bed.

Oh and, make a big show and dance and advertise that the always online DRM has been removed, because I don't plan on booting up my ouya every 8 months just to check and be disappointed.

I could have not given this feedback, this is feedback I shouldn't need to give, this problem should have never happened at all.

And sure, let's discuss in this thread, after all, that's what forums are for.

You're sincerely,

Grumpysoul.

Hydrus
03-15-2014, 12:09 AM
DRM on OUYA games are ultimately up to the developers and not OUYA themselves. But, some developers just go with what the OUYA SDK offers and don't make their own way of handling DRM. OUYA implemented the online DRM because of their worries with developers worrying about piracy, and because of how they designed the OUYA; it's meant to be connected to the internet. At the end of the day, it's up to the devs, they get to choose. Even so, I've personally found only one game that has online DRM out of the 600+ games on Discover (not doubting that there are more). Not counting the others that can be used on the OUYA, that aren't directly on Discover.

Ironsoul
03-15-2014, 12:39 AM
Fair enough. But what about:
Post what type of DRM is being used in the logo(thumbnail) in the discover page (I don't want to even have to open up the game description to find out)

They're not advertising the type of DRM in use for every single game. And if they do, it needs to be on the thumbnail. I'm not going to even consider buying an Ouya game that uses always online DRM and it's too much of a hassle figuring out which ones use it. So I just don't bother at all.
The only exception to that rule is a game that's online multiplayer with no offline mp component(which should be incredibly rare).

Also you said:
"But, some developers just go with what the OUYA SDK offers". Why hasn't Ouya made it easy for developers to offer offline DRM. Why doesn't the SDK offer by default offline drm options.

I thank you very much for your reply, it doesn't do anything to change my mind about using the Ouya again though.

Schizophretard
03-15-2014, 12:44 AM
I believe all DRM should be chosen by the developers including none at all and there should be some way to know what DRM a game has before making a purchase.

Hydrus
03-15-2014, 12:51 AM
Post what type of DRM is being used in the logo(thumbnail) in the discover page (I don't want to even have to open up the game description to find out)

Why hasn't Ouya made it easy for developers to offer offline DRM.


I believe all DRM should be chosen by the developers including none at all and there should be some way to know what DRM a game has before making a purchase.

I like having options. The more options something has, the better it is for the user. I can agree with both of these statements. An offline DRM feature in the dev kit would be nice along with the online DRM, and a way to see what DRM a game has would also be nice.

timmytot666
03-15-2014, 03:25 AM
I use all of my ouya games offline without network and I don't have any problems. Not rooted I only have a secondary launcher which over rides most of the ouyas frameworks. None of the games I've purchased have online drm so I don't know what to tell you. It sucks and it is theiir choice how they implement drm. if there was a way to see what kind of drm a game had I feel like that would help people out in the decisions they make but I also feel like there are some completely free games that have no drm and they are fantastic.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

dra6onfire
03-15-2014, 03:38 AM
http://ouyaforum.com/showthread.php?3414-Game-DRM-Model-Info

vatigo
03-15-2014, 01:25 PM
IMO, every game should be playable without online connection (except those that by definition need internet like multiplayer games).
OUYA should include that into their checklist.

There IS a valid need to check purchased status every time the game starts, BUT if no connection is available it should fallback to the locally stored value.

The documentation should be updated to point that out and it should include an example of such practice.

That said, including always online DRM is devs fault and AFAIK only minority of the games use it.

Jeffry84
03-15-2014, 02:10 PM
I totally agree that games should be playable while offline and that there should be an easy way to know if any game has DRMs and of what type. There's a thread in the general discussion section about it, but still the unaware customer could buy a game and find the trap. The console shouldn't be supposed to be always online anyway, I like to stay disconnected unless of course I'm playing some online mode.

timmytot666
03-15-2014, 02:24 PM
The console itself is an online console the only way to download games is to be online; updates are online only; so I get where it comes from. There should be an offline drm model you can use.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

Jeffry84
03-15-2014, 03:59 PM
The fact that the console is online most if not all the time (let's ignore the fact that my Ouya can't stay connected for more than 5 seconds in a row) doesn't make it an online device. What on Earth is an online device in any case!? Every offline function should work regardless of the availability of a connection (see bringing your console on vacation)

timmytot666
03-15-2014, 04:04 PM
Which of the Ouya functions are listed as offline functions?

Jeffry84
03-15-2014, 04:08 PM
Playing games? So much for the couch gaming...
EDIT: (added stuff)
Downloading and updating applications (99% of the times games on Ouya) can be done every now and then, I could say "ok, let's check if there's something new" and for the rest of the time being offline unless I chose differently (playing online for example).

timmytot666
03-15-2014, 04:16 PM
I don't recall them saying they would make games playable offline. I could be wrong though. Also; I don't agree with online DRM practices so I don't get why you're arguing with me lol. I'm on your side they should be removed.

Jeffry84
03-15-2014, 04:23 PM
No arguing, just answered a question ;) I'm not that smarter-than-thou type of guy so common on the internet nowadays. Going back to the topic, the always online drm prevented me (and not only me) to buy some games. I completely ignored the FFIII half price sale, even though I'd love to have it on my Ouya.

timmytot666
03-15-2014, 04:29 PM
I ignored it cause 1 its a billion year old game that I own on its original system and 2 the drm. So I get your point its just that at no point did they say we would make games accessible offline; they certainly didn't say we would need an internet connection no matter what but what can we do? There is no way Square is gonna take the DRM off of their game. They've done it for everything they've released on android/ios/ and now Ouya. That was THEIR choice specifically to add their own drm onto the games. They knew what they were doing. I bought one of their games on the play store and it worked until I turned off the internet connection to save battery while I was playing which seemed like something common people using phones would do. Butttt it stopped my game cold.

Jeffry84
03-15-2014, 04:41 PM
The only thing that we can do is not buying. And inform people of the affected games.
I also hope for Ouya to change their policies regarding these behaviors and asking developers not to use it (penalty the exclusion from Discover), but unfortunately people like FFIII and Amazing Frog (the other game I've heard has the drm) and they bought them, otherwise I wouldn't care for their disappearance from the Discover section.

EDIT: Anyway Ironsoul, here's the DRM thread: unfortunately it's pretty out of date at the moment http://ouyaforum.com/showthread.php?3414-Game-DRM-Model-Info

Kaimega
03-15-2014, 08:48 PM
The only thing that we can do is not buying. And inform people of the affected games.
I also hope for Ouya to change their policies regarding these behaviors and asking developers not to use it (penalty the exclusion from Discover), but unfortunately people like FFIII and Amazing Frog (the other game I've heard has the drm) and they bought them, otherwise I wouldn't care for their disappearance from the Discover section.

EDIT: Anyway Ironsoul, here's the DRM thread: unfortunately it's pretty out of date at the moment http://ouyaforum.com/showthread.php?3414-Game-DRM-Model-Info

I must be the only one who cares not for online DRM. it exists, and exists not only here but on many other platforms (android, IOS, steam, hell even X360 Indie games last I checked). Always online DRM is one thing, but an online check will sorta always be around. As stated, very few use the always online DRM. That still hasn't stopped me from playing the games though.

OUYA cannot penalize people who use always online DRM, that in itself is very Anti-OUYA (no matter how archaic) and would also prevent games like FF3 from ever being released on here. Now that I think about it.. OUYA does have rules about having an offline check, as some users who spoke with the QA team have been told they need a fallback in their game when there is no online available. I believe it was something they added recently.

It is more or less up to the devs as to what to DRM. They do it for a reason, no matter how crazy the reason may be. Who are we to tell them what/how/why they should and should not secure?

Schizophretard
03-15-2014, 09:16 PM
Who are we to tell them what/how/why they should and should not secure?

Customers.

Ironsoul
03-15-2014, 10:57 PM
This thread brings me hope. Most people here agree that always online DRM is unnecessary and anti consumer.

From what I gather, there are plenty of games on the Ouya that make use of offline DRM, but there's no reliable way of knowing which ones. I believe in capitalism, choice and voting with my wallet(well the plastic card inside the wallet but eh).

So I'd like to focus the request away from removing always online DRM from all games, and make a push towards my second request and only that request: make the type of drm shown in the thumbnail of the game. Developers are free to make use of always online DRM, and if they do decide to use such measures, I'll be happy to not give them any money.

I'd like to put forward an example, the humblebundle store: https://www.humblebundle.com/store
if you hover over any of the big pictures in the featured games, it states very clearly which games are DRM free, which games are steam only, origin etc.

Looking further down the page, next to each game listed the DRM model is listed next to each game.

This actually isn't exactly what I want, it doesn't state for games that do use DRM (no DRM FREE logo), whether it's always online or not.

I should make this clear: While I personally would prefer all games to be DRM free, that's simply not going to happen any time soon, so I'll make do with offline DRM (like most steam games). I do not want the Ouya games to be DRM FREE, I want the type of DRM communicated clearly and simply in the thumbnail for the game on the discover page.

I'd like to see the picture of the game, and in the bottom right corner see : offline, or always online.

That post got a little long. Once this simple feature is on the Ouya, I'll start buying games again. That's not a threat by the way, I just want to be informed, so I can make an informed decision.

timmytot666
03-16-2014, 12:30 AM
The humble bundle for android always gets sent in drm free form and its amazing.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

Schizophretard
03-16-2014, 01:03 AM
This thread brings me hope. Most people here agree that always online DRM is unnecessary and anti consumer.

From what I gather, there are plenty of games on the Ouya that make use of offline DRM, but there's no reliable way of knowing which ones. I believe in capitalism, choice and voting with my wallet(well the plastic card inside the wallet but eh).

So I'd like to focus the request away from removing always online DRM from all games, and make a push towards my second request and only that request: make the type of drm shown in the thumbnail of the game. Developers are free to make use of always online DRM, and if they do decide to use such measures, I'll be happy to not give them any money.

I'd like to put forward an example, the humblebundle store: https://www.humblebundle.com/store
if you hover over any of the big pictures in the featured games, it states very clearly which games are DRM free, which games are steam only, origin etc.

Looking further down the page, next to each game listed the DRM model is listed next to each game.

This actually isn't exactly what I want, it doesn't state for games that do use DRM (no DRM FREE logo), whether it's always online or not.

I should make this clear: While I personally would prefer all games to be DRM free, that's simply not going to happen any time soon, so I'll make do with offline DRM (like most steam games). I do not want the Ouya games to be DRM FREE, I want the type of DRM communicated clearly and simply in the thumbnail for the game on the discover page.

I'd like to see the picture of the game, and in the bottom right corner see : offline, or always online.

That post got a little long. Once this simple feature is on the Ouya, I'll start buying games again. That's not a threat by the way, I just want to be informed, so I can make an informed decision.

I basically agree but not with putting it on the thumbnails. They are the "box art" and they already get things like sales and so forth on them. They are also kind of like an ad or billboard for the game. I think developers should put whatever they want on them. I just think it should be in the game's details. However it is done, the important thing to me is customers knowing exactly what they are getting before paying. There should be no surprises and many options for developers like selling both a DRM version and a DRM-free version at different prices for an example.

Jeffry84
03-16-2014, 10:36 AM
I basically agree but not with putting it on the thumbnails. They are the "box art" and they already get things like sales and so forth on them. They are also kind of like an ad or billboard for the game. I think developers should put whatever they want on them. I just think it should be in the game's details. However it is done, the important thing to me is customers knowing exactly what they are getting before paying. There should be no surprises and many options for developers like selling both a DRM version and a DRM-free version at different prices for an example.

I agree: something like "BEWARE: This game requires constant online connection" (or something similar but in a decent English).
Kaimega, you should worry about it since if you or the home which your game phones are offline for whatever reason then you can't play it. If the check is permanently unavailable you've just lost a payed game indefinitely.
Hoping I'm not the only one, I would pay more (not much more) for a DRM-free game, even to foster their sellings against the DRMed ones to the point they quit making them.

Ironsoul
03-16-2014, 11:21 AM
I would not pay more for a DRM free version of the game. That concept is absurd. If a seller said "hey, you can have this game with DRM for $x or DRM free for $X+1." I'm going to say **** good day to you sir, and not buy the game altogether.

Indefinite Offline DRM, as annoying as it can be, is acceptable(doesn't require you to sign in every x time to refresh key). A waste of time to develop perhaps because it's going to be cracked anyway, but hey, if they want to waste time and money, that's their prerogative.

AmazingJas
03-16-2014, 12:31 PM
If it is a requirement for playing the game, then it should be listed as such, plain and simple.

sahoskins12
03-19-2014, 09:44 PM
I basically agree but not with putting it on the thumbnails. They are the "box art" and they already get things like sales and so forth on them. They are also kind of like an ad or billboard for the game. I think developers should put whatever they want on them. I just think it should be in the game's details. However it is done, the important thing to me is customers knowing exactly what they are getting before paying. There should be no surprises and many options for developers like selling both a DRM version and a DRM-free version at different prices for an example.
This!
As a developer I would hate to be told that on the little thumbnail I have to include DRM details. I don't mind in the product description but you enter all sorts of uncomfortable territory when you tell devs to include certain phrases on a thumbnail which is limited in size.

Jeffry84
03-19-2014, 10:11 PM
I think that the always online, phone home DRMs and the like should be forbidden. Or at least they should be declared at least somewhere (in the description?), otherwise it's a fraud. In the chatbox I also talked about a possible moderated users' comments section alongside the rating system (I can't remember with whom).

Games' thumbnails are already ruined by other stuff like sales (half pic taken by banners like "50% off!!"), there could be a "default" cover for the play section and a "ruinable" one for the discovery but this is another story :)

Steven W. Hunt
03-21-2014, 08:12 PM
I turned on my OUYA yesterday in the middle of a net hiccup. It wouldn't even register that I had bought any of the games that I had. They were all in demo mode only. The one free game I have (Garoudan) refused to work outright.

I know this is a much more wired world we live in now, and everything's connected these days, but seriously, a lot of places, US and Canada included, have absolute balls for connectivity unless you pay out the bum or are lucky enough to live in a Google Fiber neighborhood.

Jeffry84
03-21-2014, 11:32 PM
My Ouya usually can't keep the connection, and I haven't had many problems with the games I have. I avoided anything I knew had harmful DRMs since I find them a medicine more harmful than the disease. Go tell it to the Big Bad and Deaf game companies.

I should and I will check my games one by one and report again. Gaurodan and other Locomalito's games work for me, so you might have a different issue (?).

Paul Laimal-Convoy
03-31-2014, 03:46 PM
Can't we just disable the "drm framework" apk?

Anyway, just sideload the regular andoid versions of games that have online drm in the ouya version, maybe?

Kaimega
03-31-2014, 05:09 PM
Can't we just disable the "drm framework" apk?

Anyway, just sideload the regular andoid versions of games that have online drm in the ouya version, maybe?

I don't think that will work.. I mean if they have a DRM on here, there is a surefire chance if you get them any other legal store, they would be DRM'd to that store as well. Take Final Fantasy III for example. Get it from GP and it won't work at all last I heard.

Ironsoul
05-18-2014, 02:05 PM
Any news on this? any status? I seriously cannot be bothered booting my ouya up in order to check whether there is any progress on either a) removing the always online DRM from the games or b) at least telling me whether the DRM used in a game is always online or one time activation/drm free.

If the ouya has the most amazing game in the entire planet on it, I still won't bother if the DRM issue isn't sorted.

Killswitch
05-18-2014, 02:09 PM
Any news on this? any status? I seriously cannot be bothered booting my ouya up in order to check whether there is any progress on either a) removing the always online DRM from the games or b) at least telling me whether the DRM used in a game is always online or one time activation/drm free.

If the ouya has the most amazing game in the entire planet on it, I still won't bother if the DRM issue isn't sorted.

Any news? Who said there was any consideration for this?

Kaimega
05-18-2014, 07:43 PM
Any news on this? any status? I seriously cannot be bothered booting my ouya up in order to check whether there is any progress on either a) removing the always online DRM from the games or b) at least telling me whether the DRM used in a game is always online or one time activation/drm free.

If the ouya has the most amazing game in the entire planet on it, I still won't bother if the DRM issue isn't sorted.

This was only a suggestion, also it isn't in OUYAs place or power to tell devs how to handle their DRM, especially if they are calling it an open console, meaning devs could implement how they want to check payments any way they choose, if they restrict that (just like opening up free to try), they aren't giving the devs freedom to protect themselves like they originally said. There is a checklist where devs (as an option I believe) put in an offline check as well if they aren't connected to the internet.

Besides, not alot of games have always online DRM anyway, it is more the *very* early ones.

Jeffry84
05-18-2014, 08:21 PM
This was only a suggestion, also it isn't in OUYAs place or power to tell devs how to handle their DRM, especially if they are calling it an open console, meaning devs could implement how they want to check payments any way they choose, if they restrict that (just like opening up free to try), they aren't giving the devs freedom to protect themselves like they originally said. There is a checklist where devs (as an option I believe) put in an offline check as well if they aren't connected to the internet.

Besides, not alot of games have always online DRM anyway, it is more the *very* early ones.

The problem remains that these developers don't declare it. Pretty intentionally unjust.

Kaimega
05-18-2014, 08:24 PM
The problem remains that these developers don't declare it. Pretty intentionally unjust.

Yes, I agree. It should be mentioned somewhere in their description or game details or something like that.

takedownmak
05-19-2014, 01:01 AM
Ok so i went though all my games one by one seeing what game's require internet.
and while most of my 100 + games worked there were some let downs. i really wish they would fix this drm bs
i want to know that i own my game that i spend my hard earned cash on. There is no reason for this besides piracy.... but let's be honest
who does this on OUYA? i just hope if OUYA would ever kick the bucket these games would be patched idk.
anyways here's some games that just don't need drm imo. Thoughts???

No brakes valet

organ trail

pizza boy

potatoman seeks the troof

sine mora

sonic games

drop chord

Ultionus

beast boxing turbo

fist of awesome

Kaimega
05-19-2014, 01:03 AM
I didn't think the ones listed had DRM.. if you were offline they would still work no?

takedownmak
05-19-2014, 01:07 AM
nope it said i had to buy the full game

Pat1986
05-19-2014, 01:07 AM
thats how digital distribution works. you dont own anything anymore. you just buy licenses to use the desired software/media.

takedownmak
05-19-2014, 01:11 AM
but it's some bs that some have drm and some don't


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1-tb5u6Rlc

Kaimega
05-19-2014, 01:26 AM
but it's some bs that some have drm and some don't



As I mentioned in another thread, Ouya is all about openness. Openness meaning the developer can handle DRM their own way just like how they can handle payments their own way. If they do it the same on other systems, it is unlikely they will not do it for OUYA just because it is OUYA (or any other specific platform, for that matter).

It is unfortunate that it is like this, but it is what it is. There have been devs that have DRM-free games on OUYA however.. There is a DRM list somewhere on the forums too, though it might be outdated.

Sitting Fox
05-19-2014, 02:12 AM
I think, similarly with premium games, the best way to deal with it if you really don't like it is to not give your money to those who do it. If there's a game you are interested in (or you've already bought it), I think the best route is to talk kindly to the developer.

"I would like to be able to play your game offline but it seems I can't. Is this a bug? Or are there plans to change this so the full game can be played without internet? Thanks."

They might not have thought to test the game offline, or it might just be something they aren't sure how to fix. If something like the former, they can then work on fixing it. If the latter, then we can try to point them in the right direction in figuring it out.

If they're doing it on purpose, that'll be made clear. They'll say so.

(Well, unless they don't answer at all....)

I do think some sort of "online only" labeling should be required, either officially on the outside or in the description at least. With the new feature to easily tell free, free to try, and premium games apart, I think this would be nice to have in an upcoming update and could work rather similarly.

LightyKD
05-20-2014, 01:39 AM
You know, while individual game DRM sucks, the biggest DRM related issue the OUYA has is the account lockout problem. I faced this issue last year and I'm surprised that everyone forgot all about it. OUYA users have NO access to their consoles in the event that their OUYA account either goes missing or is "locked" on the OUYA server. This means that even thou your data is STILL on the OUYA console, there is absolutely no way to access your data unless you have a active OUYA account. This sucks big time and something needs to be done about this!

Jeffry84
05-20-2014, 10:02 PM
I think, similarly with premium games, the best way to deal with it if you really don't like it is to not give your money to those who do it. If there's a game you are interested in (or you've already bought it), I think the best route is to talk kindly to the developer.

"I would like to be able to play your game offline but it seems I can't. Is this a bug? Or are there plans to change this so the full game can be played without internet? Thanks."

They might not have thought to test the game offline, or it might just be something they aren't sure how to fix. If something like the former, they can then work on fixing it. If the latter, then we can try to point them in the right direction in figuring it out.

If they're doing it on purpose, that'll be made clear. They'll say so.

(Well, unless they don't answer at all....)

I do think some sort of "online only" labeling should be required, either officially on the outside or in the description at least. With the new feature to easily tell free, free to try, and premium games apart, I think this would be nice to have in an upcoming update and could work rather similarly.

So much this.
I am in contact with Square-Enix about Final Fantasy III (why not trying after all?) but they are not replying. Luckily I kept a copy of the ticket :D
Same goes for SEGA. Sonic 4 ep. 1 can't work offline, whereas the other episodes do, so maybe they could be reasonable. Let's hope so :)

Ironsoul
05-21-2014, 11:02 AM
Any news? Who said there was any consideration for this?

Well if the people who develop the Ouya console aren't even going to consider this, why should I even consider using the console? I hope they fix this issue (the lack of information about what type of DRM is used on games on the store page) before my account gets deactivated due to being inactive for over a year.

Thanks for the rest of the mostly constructive conversation everyone else! I'll check back in a month or two to see if the console is worth using then, good luck.

DrunkPunk
05-21-2014, 11:06 AM
Well if the people who develop the Ouya console aren't even going to consider this, why should I even consider using the console? I hope they fix this issue (the lack of information about what type of DRM is used on games on the store page) before my account gets deactivated due to being inactive for over a year.

Thanks for the rest of the mostly constructive conversation everyone else! I'll check back in a month or two to see if the console is worth using then, good luck.

We have a thread (http://ouyaforum.com/showthread.php?3414-Game-DRM-Model-Info) listing which games have DRM and which do not. There are different types of DRM in use: online checks on boot up, delay tickets, simple receipts on the OUYA itself and more that I'm not aware of I'm sure. It's all up to the developer what they want to use.

Jeffry84
05-21-2014, 11:40 AM
We have a thread (http://ouyaforum.com/showthread.php?3414-Game-DRM-Model-Info) listing which games have DRM and which do not. There are different types of DRM in use: online checks on boot up, delay tickets, simple receipts on the OUYA itself and more that I'm not aware of I'm sure. It's all up to the developer what they want to use.

That list is reeeeeeally outdated, DP. I'm trying to create a new one on a spreadsheet, but it'll take some time and I'll need help to keep it updated. It doesn't solve the problem, but at least it responds to the misbehavior of some developers to not telling (on purpose) that their games have restrictions. As you said there are many ways to protect their property, but some are much better than others.

DrunkPunk
05-21-2014, 11:50 AM
That list is reeeeeeally outdated, DP. I'm trying to create a new one on a spreadsheet, but it'll take some time and I'll need help to keep it updated. It doesn't solve the problem, but at least it responds to the misbehavior of some developers to not telling (on purpose) that their games have restrictions. As you said there are many ways to protect their property, but some are much better than others.

Aye, it is but it's all we've got! Haha.

If you want that one updated, you can PM me the information and I'll update that thread. If you want to create a new and improved one though, that's cool and I'll change the link in the sticky.

Ironsoul
05-22-2014, 05:19 AM
Please don't update that thread just for me, I won't look at it. I want this information on the console itself on every game. We're in 2014 man, we shouldn't have to look up external resources to find basic information about the game right in front of us. Also that thread states a couple of games have offline DRM when I know for a fact they're using always online DRM. Not only was the information in that thread outdated when I loooked at it it was unreliable too.

Kaimega
05-22-2014, 05:36 AM
Please don't update that thread just for me, I won't look at it. I want this information on the console itself on every game. We're in 2014 man, we shouldn't have to look up external resources to find basic information about the game right in front of us. Also that thread states a couple of games have offline DRM when I know for a fact they're using always online DRM. Not only was the information in that thread outdated when I loooked at it it was unreliable too.

Talk to the developers about it then, meaning ask them if they can show what kind of DRM is on there. They are the ones with-holding the information, not OUYA.

Sitting Fox
05-22-2014, 05:50 AM
Please don't update that thread just for me, I won't look at it. I want this information on the console itself on every game. We're in 2014 man, we shouldn't have to look up external resources to find basic information about the game right in front of us. Also that thread states a couple of games have offline DRM when I know for a fact they're using always online DRM. Not only was the information in that thread outdated when I loooked at it it was unreliable too.

I don't think anyone here thinks there shouldn't be a clear label of sorts somewhere that states if a game requires an internet connection to play it in full. Whether or not OUYA is or is planning to do something about it, we simply don't know.

However, a well-kept list by OUYA users is the next best thing, being something to use in the meanwhile. Perhaps that's not good enough for you, and that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion and how you choose to spend your time.

As for me, I would very much like to see that always online DRM list updated, and in turn made more reliable. I feel that in time, the option for listing which games have it and don't will be implemented. It will take more than just adding the label, however, probably requiring the OUYA team to go through and retest each title to ensure correct labeling. Or to simply mark all games with some unknown label until a new update is submitted and only checking then (though perhaps our list could help with that). I am willing to wait out whatever method is chosen though, as it's probably going to take time whatever way.

Until that all comes to be, if it does, I will be content with looking at a list and perhaps politely asking developers to eliminate the DRM or label their own works as having such.

To each their own though.

Jeffry84
05-22-2014, 09:14 AM
Please don't update that thread just for me, I won't look at it. I want this information on the console itself on every game. We're in 2014 man, we shouldn't have to look up external resources to find basic information about the game right in front of us. Also that thread states a couple of games have offline DRM when I know for a fact they're using always online DRM. Not only was the information in that thread outdated when I loooked at it it was unreliable too.

Sure not! I do it for whoever is interested! You are welcome, Mr. Selfless!

Anyway you could PM me and/or DrunkPunk to help us improve/update the list.


As I mentioned in another thread, Ouya is all about openness. Openness meaning the developer can handle DRM their own way just like how they can handle payments their own way.

I was thinking about it for a little: hiding the truth isn't a good way to be open, and in the long run it won't hurt much the frauded consumer but more the Ouya itself, since the consumers will raise their voice, rightfully spread the fact that there are hidden DRMs and stop buying games at all. OUYA Inc. should seriously think of doing something about it. Our list is a workaround and some regulation won't hurt. At least assure the offline working of all games!


Thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX support,

That information has not yet been announced or we are not able to comment at this time. Please stay up to date on our website (http://na.square-enix.com) for up to date information on our titles (both current and upcoming). We apologize we cannot assist further at this time.


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I've just received this reply from Square-Enix North America telling that they can't talk about it at the moment(!)(stock reply anyway). Sure consumers have to consider bulk quantities of vaseline these days...

flamepanther
05-22-2014, 10:05 AM
I don't think OUYA is "hiding the truth" about DRM. They provide developers with some options, but in the end, they may not even look into who is using what type of DRM at all. "Does it run? Does it appear to follow our guidelines? OK, onto the store it goes!" The console also makes it abundantly clear that it pretty much requires an Internet connection for normal use and expects one all of the time. You can't even set up a new console without going online. When it is offline, it warns you that some things might not work. If the system itself isn't even fully functional without being online, then it should hardly surprise anyone when being offline happens to break a few games as well.

I don't like online DRM, mind you. I just don't think anything is deliberately being hidden from us. Not by OUYA, at least. I'm also trying to make sense of the "get with the times" type remarks I see here from others in the thread. What other consoles are clearly labelling their games' DRM practices? What other consoles have DRM-free games at all? Even on Google Play, how many games describe their DRM up front? The only game selling ecosystems I can think of that are truly upfront about DRM on a consistent basis are GetGames, or stores that are 100% DRM-free like GOG.

Jeffry84
05-22-2014, 10:51 AM
I'm not blaming OUYA Inc. of hiding the truth, I just think the fact that DRMs are not declared by Software houses will harm more OUYA Inc. than anyone else.
I understand giving freedom to the developers, but freedom shouldn't mean anarchy. If I give freedom to the drivers should I expect Carmageddon? Sure I should blame the drivers, but in the end it's bad that the traffic policemen don't do their job because the only rule is that the car must be able to work, and the pedestrians will blame the latters.
(Please note that I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just trying to make my point clearer.)

I've had no problem with any of my PS3 games so far, have I just been lucky? It's clear in the contract of how many machines the games could be installed on, just to make an example.

I wouldn't be happy to be compared to Google Play! And although I would like for the game to be completely DRM-free (it seems to me that the GOG formula is working well) I could be content with a mandatory and clear non-intrusive formula being part of the quality control.

flamepanther
05-22-2014, 10:59 AM
Thanks for making that more clear.

Jeffry84
05-27-2014, 01:41 AM
Ok so i went though all my games one by one seeing what game's require internet.
and while most of my 100 + games worked there were some let downs. i really wish they would fix this drm bs
i want to know that i own my game that i spend my hard earned cash on. There is no reason for this besides piracy.... but let's be honest
who does this on OUYA? i just hope if OUYA would ever kick the bucket these games would be patched idk.
anyways here's some games that just don't need drm imo. Thoughts???

No brakes valet

organ trail

pizza boy

potatoman seeks the troof

sine mora

sonic games

drop chord

Ultionus

beast boxing turbo

fist of awesome

I just saw this little list, takedownmak. Can you tell me how these games behave when offline? Usually they revert to demo mode, but for example Final Fantasy III does not even launch if offline, and I'd like to be at least a little specific. Even in PM if you like. It will help improve the list I'm making :) thanks! You also saved me from a couple of bad surprises on programmed purchases!

Also, Sonic 4 ep. 2 works offline to me, and Pat said that Sonic CD works as well. Sonic 4-1 reverts instead to demo mode, unfortunately, but as I said, I opened a ticket at SEGA customer support (awaiting a response).

For now, I'll just post the list I'm making (evidently a work in progress) here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rhutd6qurvm4ppn/DRMpricelist.ods).

Shiroku
08-10-2014, 08:37 PM
also for me it is very important to have the possibility to play offline.
This option can impact my shopping, I will not buy any app that required an internet connection also when the connection is not required for real game feature